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Post by camtech on Jan 4, 2022 19:59:50 GMT 12
Following a query via ADF Serials, I'm looking for any information regarding flight simulators, procedure trainers and any ground based training device that has/is in service with the RNZAF.
Some I believe were even given numbers in the range of aircraft they supported. One I recall seeing was NZ4207 on the Orion trainer. The Redifon Procedure Trainer had two identities, depending on which aircraft it was set up as - NZ7006 and NZ4206 (prior to the actual NZ4206 turning up.
I am aware of trainers for Orion, Seasprite, Aermacchi, Augusta 109, NH90, Texan. Any details appreciated on origin, current status, type (full-motion, static, etc) disposal and any allocted numbers.
Thanks, guys and gals.
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Post by Antonio on Jan 4, 2022 23:16:36 GMT 12
There was a demonstration simulator at Hobby for the UH-1 for a while, about 1990
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Post by lesterpk on Jan 5, 2022 0:31:52 GMT 12
There were trainers for the Skyhawks, called Hotshots. Very basic flight sim but you could practice weapons system use etc.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 5, 2022 6:43:32 GMT 12
Going back to early days there were the Link Trainers on all the training stations. There was also a big room set up for bombing training with a big moving landscape, not sure what that was called, but I think it was at Ohakea with No. 1 OTU?
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Post by davidd on Jan 5, 2022 7:38:47 GMT 12
During the early part of WW2 the RNZAF received (from memory) a total of 37 Link Trainers (think they were all of the "Blind" type, with a closed "inverted coffin" lid on top to cut off all outside view). Pretty certain we received none of the earlier "Visual" Links, which featured an open cockpit, as well as a full set of flying, and control surfaces. Also interesting to note that many of the Links were finished in USAAC (or USAAF) training colour scheme of dark blue fuselage and yellow flying surfaces, perhaps even the blue/white/red stripes on rudder. These "aircraft" were allotted to ALL the main training and operational stations (Wigram, Woodbourne, New Plymouth, Harewood, Taieri, Ohakea, Whenuapai, and probably also Ardmore, Gisborne, perhaps also Waipapakauri. At least one Link Trainer was also sent to Fiji at some point (1943/44?), was later under control of No. 3 (FB) OTU at Laucala Bay. A very few of the later-type Links (Type D) were supplied to the RNZAF (perhaps late in WW2, or even postwar), but I think a few of the earlier types were retained in postwar RNZAF, with many of latter seemingly being ultimately issued to ATC squadrons.
The second type mentioned by Dave above was the AML Bombing Teacher, which were installed at Wigram and Ohakea so far as I know. The one at Wigram was originally installed (or intended to be installed) in the so-called Instructional Building (much later became better known as the Control Tower, and HQ for Training Group/Support Group). However, a little later in WW2 the AML Bombing Teacher was installed in a rather tall and thin, built-for-purpose structure some distance away, directly across the road from the hangars, I think between Nos. 6 and 7 Hangars (or 5 and 6?). This type of simulator was considered obsolete by end of WW2 and the AML building was later converted to act as a drying shed for fire hoses (one version) and/or parachutes. This building was a of a very odd shape, unlike any other in the RNZAF so far as I know. The AML building is included in the diorama on display at the RNZAF Muesum, although the original building is long gone.
Another type of wartime bombing simulator was the Camera Obscura system for which a special building had to be provided. The services of an actual airworthy Airspeed Oxford were required to carry out the simulated bombing exercise - however no practice bombs required, as their function was simulated by use of flash bulbs located in bomb-bay of the Oxford; have an idea these might have been photographed from the hut below, and the accuracy deduced from the negatives, but I could be totally wrong - has anybody got any idea of the Air Publication related to the Camera Obscura apparatus?
Both AML Bombing Teacher and Camera Obscura were standard equipment in RAF (and almost certainly in other wartime British Commonwealth air forces) and featured at many airfields around the World.
Incidentally, AML = Air Ministry Laboratory, a special department set up within the RAF in mid-1930s (or thereabouts) to develop "synthetic training devices" which it was hoped would save vast amounts of money as well as many lives by carrying out certain training exercises on the ground without moving to, or at least partially replacing training previously considered to be necessarily carried out in actual flight.
There was also another type of simulator developed by RAF which I think was reproduced in NZ, some kind of bomber crew trainer, which required a dummy fuselage (or at least the pilot, W/Op and Nav compartments) in which bombing missions could be simulated on probably rather truncated time scale, but with loud noise, and no walking around between compartments. Perhaps just the one in NZ, possibly at Ohakea, maybe at New Plymouth - I think there is a photograph of this trainer published in the wartime Contact magazine (1944?) when it was located at New Plymouth.
David D
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Post by tbf2504 on Jan 5, 2022 10:16:21 GMT 12
Les, In more recent times there are at Ohakea:
A109 all axis simulator
NH90 fixed bed simulator
NH90/A109 cabin simulator used for training crewmen
TC6 fixed based simulator
And in the classrooms for air warfare students there are computer simulations of all the onboard systems including sensors
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Post by camtech on Jan 5, 2022 11:21:47 GMT 12
Thanks, Paul, exactly what I'm after. The wartime detail is fascinating, especially the Link Trainers, as I can recall working on them back in late '60s, repairing, I believe, an ATC one at Hobby. Bit of a cow as it was well worn. I have asked previously about Links, but minimal response.
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Post by McFly on Jan 5, 2022 12:00:53 GMT 12
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jaybee
Squadron Leader
Posts: 125
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Post by jaybee on Jan 5, 2022 12:34:20 GMT 12
There were trainers for the Skyhawks, called Hotshots. Very basic flight sim but you could practice weapons system use etc. Does anyone have a picture of the Hotshot sim? Intrigued to know what they looked like and what they could do. Cheers |
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Post by sue03 on Jan 5, 2022 13:34:37 GMT 12
From about 1985 No 3 Squadron Iroquois pilots used US Army UH-IH simulators for instrument flying and emergencies training at Wheeler Air Force Base Honolulu Hawaii. There were four full motion but visuals simulators available. It was a a tough gig doing the training but it had to be done! On the side, some of us got rides in AH-1 D Cobras too!
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Post by lesterpk on Jan 5, 2022 14:07:02 GMT 12
Basically a cockpit shell, IIRC correctly there was TV mounted just outside the windscreen with HUD data etc. Don Simms would be the likely one to have any info or photos.
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jaybee
Squadron Leader
Posts: 125
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Post by jaybee on Jan 5, 2022 15:00:55 GMT 12
Basically a cockpit shell, IIRC correctly there was TV mounted just outside the windscreen with HUD data etc. Don Simms would be the likely one to have any info or photos. Thanks for the info; do you know what happened to them? I assume they got sold as part of the Draken deal? |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 5, 2022 17:07:03 GMT 12
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Post by McFly on Jan 5, 2022 17:55:45 GMT 12
"Instructor and cadets during bombing instruction in an AML Bombing Teacher. Cadet is using a bombsight simulator. Royal New Zealand Air Force Station Ohakea. Circa 1942" 
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Post by Antonio on Jan 5, 2022 18:43:06 GMT 12
Bottom photo is reversed
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Post by McFly on Jan 5, 2022 19:02:36 GMT 12
Or is it the top photo..? The FS (Field Service) Cap was always 'sloped' over to the right which would make the bottom photo correct and the odd looking FS caps on the top photo incorrect thus 'reversed'..  Looks better...   |
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Post by davidd on Jan 6, 2022 12:20:10 GMT 12
The bomb sight being used in the bomb-sight simulator is actually a real sight, the famous and long-lived "Wimperis" sight named after its inventor (the original sight was developed in latter part of the Great War, that is, WW1), which were invariably identified with a mark number (largely dependent on their place in the history). If I have identified this incorrectly, please say! Don't be shy. Then again, many items used to demonstrate or provide practice for personnel getting to grips with technology new to them, were sometimes slightly (or well-used) specimens, including some that would not be considered fit for use on actual operations, but quite OK for dry runs.
David D
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Post by nuuumannn on Jan 6, 2022 17:43:35 GMT 12
The bomb sight being used in the bomb-sight simulator is actually a real sight, the famous and long-lived "Wimperis" sight named after its inventor (the original sight was developed in latter part of the Great War, that is, WW1), which were invariably identified with a mark number (largely dependent on their place in the history). If I have identified this incorrectly, please say! Don't be shy. Then again, many items used to demonstrate or provide practice for personnel getting to grips with technology new to them, were sometimes slightly (or well-used) specimens, including some that would not be considered fit for use on actual operations, but quite OK for dry runs. David D Nice work as usual, Dave. The Course Setting Bomb Sight was a feature of British aircraft throughout the between-the-wars years and was developed by the ever thoughtful RNAS. Here's one faintly visible in the nose of the Loch Ness Wellington at Brooklands.  DSC_1231 A close-up of the sight achieved by poking my camera lens through a gap in the geodetic structure! This one is a Mk.VII. At East Fortune I remember we got given a beautiful Mk.IX that was in immaculate condition.  DSC_1236 Good information on their history here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Course_Setting_Bomb_Sight#Mk._VII_and_IX |
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Post by vansvilla on Jan 9, 2022 13:28:03 GMT 12
If my memory serves me correctly, there is a Link trainer and plotting board/map in the Transport and Technology museum near New Plymouth. Well worth a look, theres a bit 9f aviation stuff in it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2022 15:27:36 GMT 12
Classic Flyers NZ at Tauranga has two Links...one upgraded with a flatscreen TV instead of instruments and an Xbox 360 gaming console replacing the flight controls and bellows! They also have a Beech procedures trainer which I saw for the first time on my visit before Christmas. I thought I took a photo but no, however my wife did...although her brother and I are in the way somewhat!!  Beech procedures trainer Tauranga 231221 Samantha Yates by Zac Yates, on Flickr |
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