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Post by gibbo on Apr 3, 2022 23:10:56 GMT 12
Hey have been looking at online (Archives) WW1 service records for 2 brothers who served with the NZ Tunnellers (3rd Reinforcements) and see something on both their records that I've never seen on records before. They have an entry that states that having arrived at Etaples camp on the way to France they were 'Detached to Segregation' and on the same date another entry 'Admitted to Seg. Camp'.
About a month later they are 'Attached to Base (ex Seg. Camp)' then 2 weeks later 'Detached to join unit'.
Does anyone know what Segregation would refer to? I wondered if it was disciplinary but for both of them to do the same on the same dates somehow suggests something else to me.
...Gibbo
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Post by nuuumannn on Apr 4, 2022 10:15:10 GMT 12
Hi Gibbo, the Segregation Camp at Etaples, or "Eat Apples" as it was called by some who were there was quarantine to ward off the spread of infectious disease. It's worth knowing that Etaples is often recognised as the site where the Spanish flu epidemic took root among soldiers in France.
When were your brothers there? As tunnellers, were they involved at Arras, or the Somme, or Messines?
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Post by gibbo on Apr 4, 2022 23:56:27 GMT 12
Hi Gibbo, the Segregation Camp at Etaples, or "Eat Apples" as it was called by some who were there was quarantine to ward off the spread of infectious disease. It's worth knowing that Etaples is often recognised as the site where the Spanish flu epidemic took root among soldiers in France. When were your brothers there? As tunnellers, were they involved at Arras, or the Somme, or Messines? Cool thanks nuuumannn, that makes sense. I've read a number of WW1 service records and never seen that reference before. They both left segregation at Etaples in May 1917 & were posted 'in the field' that month when the tunnellers were in Arras so fair to assume that's where they were posted. They both embarked with the Tunnellers 3rd reinforcement draft (travelling with the 19th NZEF reinforcement draft) in November 1916 and had consecutive service numbers. Both survived the war. It's kind of quirky how I got interested in this pair... I have just finished reading Peter Cooke's excellent history of the NZ Tunnellers 'Duigan's Circus' and whilst still reading it I was over tidying up my parents graves at Waikumete (West Akl) when I went for a wander a couple of rows over & found a headstone (not RSA or CWGC) that mentioned him as being a tunneller & listed his service number (he's buried with his wife). At home I looked in the list of personnel in the book and found him & his brother listed so had a look at their service records. cheers |
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Post by nuuumannn on Apr 5, 2022 10:10:18 GMT 12
Hi Gibbo, thanks for the information. The tunnelers' war is indeed a fascinating story, far more elaborate than what is often portrayed. The Arras tunnels were extensive, and the aboveground Arras campaign began in April 1917 and ended in the month of May, so that makes sense. Further north in Flanders, at that time the tunnelling around Messines was going on and nearing its end, but the assault on the town by the NZ Div 7 June when the mines were scheduled to go off didn't have any mines within that particular area, although the explosions were close enough to have been seen and heard quite well from their posts in front of Ration Farm where the Kiwis were waiting to make their assault. This is a memorial to New Zealand miners within one of the tunnels at Arras that has been opened to the public.  Great War Tour 09 |
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Post by gibbo on Apr 5, 2022 20:17:51 GMT 12
Hi Gibbo, thanks for the information. The tunnelers' war is indeed a fascinating story, far more elaborate than what is often portrayed. The Arras tunnels were extensive, and the aboveground Arras campaign began in April 1917 and ended in the month of May, so that makes sense. Further north in Flanders, at that time the tunnelling around Messines was going on and nearing its end, but the assault on the town by the NZ Div 7 June when the mines were scheduled to go off didn't have any mines within that particular area, although the explosions were close enough to have been seen and heard quite well from their posts in front of Ration Farm where the Kiwis were waiting to make their assault. This is a memorial to New Zealand miners within one of the tunnels at Arras that has been opened to the public. Great War Tour 09Thanks nuuumannn, yep thank you too for you help  The Tunneller's story is indeed a fascinating one and it's only really since reading Peter Cooke's book that I've fully appreciated their role. In September 2016 I got to tour the Wellington Quarry museum in Arras (pictured above) ... mind-blowing stuff and I'd do the tour again in a heartbeat. It really filled you with pride when the tour guide asked if there was anyone from NZ in the group... there were me & another couple out of 12 or so... bloody awesome! I also got to see the site of the bridge over the Canal Du Nord that won the Tunneller's much acclaim in 1918 between Hermies & Havrincourt... quite ironic that Tunnellers are remembered as much for their bridge building skills as their underground work... the sort of guys you'd want on your side in a shit-fight I reckon! cheers |
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Post by nuuumannn on Apr 6, 2022 17:38:42 GMT 12
I also got to see the site of the bridge over the Canal Du Nord that won the Tunneller's much acclaim in 1918 between Hermies & Havrincourt. You mean this one?  Great War Tour 44 Looks like we covered the same ground on our collective trips about the French countryside. The tours are fantastic, alright and during my visit to the Carriere Wellington we stopped at the Nelson Tunnel and I stated that I lived in Nelson! The French tour guide was not impressed by my enthusiasm... |
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Post by gibbo on Apr 7, 2022 9:02:17 GMT 12
Yep that's the location... I know the bridge itself is long gone hence I refer to the location rather than the bridge (I've see at least one image posted elsewhere where they show this bridge & say it was the one built by the tunnellers... nope!). Yes I did 2 weeks rental car self-drive with that time split 50/50 between France & Belgium so got to see a huge amount & didn't limit myself to just the NZEF history although that was definitely the focus. Biggest buzz = being in the battlefield of Flers-Courcelette in the area that my grandfather's company advanced & where he was wounded ... 100 years to the day that he was wounded there!
Been back since for 1 day in the area after being in Normandy for 75th of the D-Day landings... got to see a little of Rossignol Wood that time. Good times!
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Post by nuuumannn on Apr 13, 2022 13:44:35 GMT 12
Yep that's the location... I know the bridge itself is long gone hence I refer to the location rather than the bridge (I've see at least one image posted elsewhere where they show this bridge & say it was the one built by the tunnellers... nope!). Yes I did 2 weeks rental car self-drive with that time split 50/50 between France & Belgium so got to see a huge amount & didn't limit myself to just the NZEF history although that was definitely the focus. Biggest buzz = being in the battlefield of Flers-Courcelette in the area that my grandfather's company advanced & where he was wounded ... 100 years to the day that he was wounded there! Been back since for 1 day in the area after being in Normandy for 75th of the D-Day landings... got to see a little of Rossignol Wood that time. Good times! Great stuff, Gibbo, I was in France for the 75th, too. We probably crossed paths, alright. Was a great time. |
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The Tunneller's story is indeed a fascinating one and it's only really since reading Peter Cooke's book that I've fully appreciated their role. In September 2016 I got to tour the Wellington Quarry museum in Arras (pictured above) ... mind-blowing stuff and I'd do the tour again in a heartbeat. It really filled you with pride when the tour guide asked if there was anyone from NZ in the group... there were me & another couple out of 12 or so... bloody awesome!