Birdlings Flat Runway

[stevechch]

Good morning all,

Im curious in finding the location of the Birdlings Flat runway and buildings. Does anyone have an aerial view of the runway/buildings?  Flying over the location soon, so would like to 'dip our wings' in respect.

[McFly]

May 27, 2022 11:40:48 GMT 12 stevechch said:

Good morning all,

Im curious in finding the location of the Birdlings Flat runway and buildings. Does anyone have an aerial view of the runway/buildings?  Flying over the location soon, so would like to 'dip our wings' in respect.

Hop into the Air Force Museum collection here (link) and they have a few which may be helpful..?

[baronbeeza]

I am sure we have seen previous threads here also.
Steve is a new member and may not be aware of them.

rnzaf.proboards.com/search/results?captcha_id=captcha_search&what_exact_phrase=Birdlings+Flat&who_only_made_by=0&display_as=0&search=Search

[davidd]

In WW2 there arose quite a collection of buildings at Birdlings Flat, and many of these stayed in use up till the end of RNZAF flying from there in about 1958, when gunnery training was transferred to Ohakea.

[Dave Homewood]

Did the RNZAF use the same buildings in the 1960's David when they and Canterbury University were firing rockets from Birdlings Flat?

[davidd]

I imagine that most of those buildings would have been demolished or burned by that time, but just a wild guess. I don't even know when Birdlings Flat as a property was handed back to the original landowners, but it may have been later than we think! I have a memory of my father commenting on the numerous (modern) aerials still standing at Birdlings flat in late 1950s as to what their functions were (something to do with civil aviation navigation I think). It is also quite possible that the air force's claim on the area was in the form of a leased property, probably ever since they started using it in about 1930. A little bit about those early days is included in the autobiography of a well-known ex-RAF engineer officer, whose name escaped me at the moment (have that book in my collection - somewhere!) Another thing of interest was a veteran tank (AFV-type!) that was supposedly out near the old airfield perhaps into the 1960s or 70s, think it was a "Honey" but probably minus its turret (they had turrets didn't they?) I think it was salvaged by armour enthusiasts, may still be around somewhere.

[Dave Homewood]

Would that be 'Toolbox On My Wing' by Geoffrey Ellis?

[Dave Homewood]

Both the M3 "Honey" Stuart and the M5 Stuart had turrets, yes, and were used by the NZ Army, particularly the Divisional Cavalry - though I am not certain if the M5 version was used in NZ. But there were indeed a few variants with no turret, used by Engineers, etc.

[Dave Homewood]

Just having a search of Papers Past and it seems that Birdlings Flat was "Service owned", so I am guessing NZDF property, according to this article.

paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19530624.2.114

I had not actually realised till seeing in several articles during this search that Birdlings Flat was also used by the NZ Army for training exercises, as well as the Air Force.

Another thing that I am sure I never knew is that the RNZAF fired rocket projectiles from Harvards there from October 1952 oneward.

ROCKET FIRING BY R.N.Z.A.F.

EXERCISES FOR PILOT TRAINEES

Pilot trainees of the Royal New Zealand Air Force will fire rockets for the first time in Canterbury this week when they go to the bombing range at Birdling’s Flat for gunnery and bombing exercises. The rockets, which will be fired from Harvard aircraft at ground targets, are 2in sub-calibre projectiles weighing 9|lb and fitted with concrete heads. They will be fitted on rocket rails under the wings of the Harvards. Twenty men from the ninth pilots’ course at the R.N.Z.A.F. station, Wigram, and seven pilots who are doing an instructors’ course at the Central Flying School, will fly to Birdling’s Flat each day for their armament training, which will include air to air and air to ground firing, and medium and low level bombing. A ground party from No. 1 Flying Training School will camp at Birdling’s Flat during the exercises which will end on November 7. Flying Officer J. W. Robinson, the armament officer, will be in charge of the party.

PRESS, 15 OCTOBER 1952

I had no idea that rockets were used on RNZAF Harvards, I have never seen photos of rockets fitted to them as far as I can recall. It happened again in 1953, as this advert in the Public Notices aludes:

RANGE WARNING DANGER NOTICE.
The public is warned that the R.N.Z.A.F. will be carrying out air firing, bombing and rocketry in the Birdling’s Flat danger area from 2nd March to 20th March, 1953, inclusive. The danger area is bounded by the following points:— 172 43E 43 48S, 172 43E 59S, 565, 172 15E 44 02S, 172 11E 43 55S. The danger height will be up to 3000 feet.

[Dave Homewood]

May 28, 2022 12:20:31 GMT 12 davidd said:

I imagine that most of those buildings would have been demolished or burned by that time, but just a wild guess.

It seems at least one building survived Birdlings Flat and was moved to Retreat Road, Avonhead, to become a scout den. I wonder if it is still there:

paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19611120.2.150

[Dave Homewood]

May 28, 2022 12:20:31 GMT 12 davidd said:

I have a memory of my father commenting on the numerous (modern) aerials still standing at Birdlings flat in late 1950s as to what their functions were (something to do with civil aviation navigation I think).

From The Press, 31 July 1962

34,000 Dollars For University Research

The National Science Foundation. the principal research organisation in the United States, which normally finances only projects directed from America, has granted 19,600 dollars to the University of Canterbury for upper-atmosphere work controlled by Dr J B Gregory, senior lecturer in physics Most of the money will be used in building two special transmitters, for which the university's own industrial development department has been commissioned Dr Gregory said last evening that his investigations concerned new phenomena up to 70 miles above the earth which were discovered in his earlier work at Springston. Scott Base, and Birdlings Flat.

The Birdlings Flat station would have about 40 aerial masts 60 to 80ft high spread over 100 acres. Dr Gregory said sixteen were already in use with temporary equipment. The new work will be in two phases Mr G. J Turner, a lecturer in physics, will use one of the transmitters to study upper-atmosphere winds in an area too high for conventional balloons where radar is still a useful tool.

Using both transmitters, Dr Gregory will measure electron concentrations Dr Gregory said that progress had been delayed for three years by lack of funds in New Zealand, but the United States, which now supported most of his work, had removed the major barrier by providing funds for the transmitters. The New Zealand Universities' Research Committee had provided three caravans for his equipment.

“The National Science Foundation has taken a broad and generous view by making this grant to our university with the single tag that the scientist in charge is best suited to direct the spending of the money,” said Dr. Gregory. “The costly equipment becomes the property of the university here."

A grant of 14,672 dollars has been made for continuing work on radio noise associated with aurorae being carried out by Dr C D Ellyett acting-head of the physics department. This has come from the United States Air Force Office of Aerospace Research This grant will support tor the next two years a study which has been going on for some time at another physics department field station. Much special equipment is already installed.

[Dave Homewood]

According to an advert in the Press from 10 August 1962, there was still an Air Force Building at Birdlings Flat.

paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19620810.2.5.8

[30sqnatc]

May 28, 2022 12:31:47 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Both the M3 "Honey" Stuart and the M5 Stuart had turrets, yes, and were used by the NZ Army, particularly the Divisional Cavalry - though I am not certain if the M5 version was used in NZ. But there were indeed a few variants with no turret, used by Engineers, etc.

Domestic use of the Stuart started in August 1941 when a order was placed for 170 with 24 Stuarts arriving in July 1942 but it became apparent that significant components were missing (the turret had no electrics, there were no radios and the turret baskets were missing). The US also failed to provide any publications or configuration documents so the Army could not identify what models they were receiving. The British declared the vehicles unfit for combat and promised to provide the missing components. The Stuarts became know as Stuart Hybrids due to all the missing parts and each batch seemed to be different from the previous shipments. Eventually a total of 292 defective Stuarts were provided. It now appears that we possibly received simplified Stuart tanks with a mix of M3 and M3A1 parts actually planned for Russian Lend Lease.

Post WW2 13 Stuarts were converted to Armoured Personnel Carriers by removing the turret. Other NZ domestic de-turreted Stuart usage included at least three Stuart Recce, a single armoured recovery vehicle (still in service in late 1960s) and a prototype 17 lber gun tractor so a deturreted Stuart on Birdlings Flat was very possible.

[avenger]

Re Birdlings Flat, the last Wings Air Weapons course was during the first week of May 1958.
Rocket firing also carried out with a 35 degree dive angle intended. Also air to air; air to ground; low level bombing.
The instructors also flew mainly low level bombing.
(I had an inert rocket and this presented to " Classic Flyers Tauranga" approx 7 years back. This rocket had dropped off the rear of a Bedford truck during this period and rescued by an Engineer.)

[davidd]

Apparently the first RNZAF course to fire rockets at Birdlings Flat was No. 11 Flying Instructors' course, the camp taking place between 24th and 27th September, 1951, "with aircraft departing Wigram each day at 0800 hours."

I thought a bit of light humour might be appreciated, although it was probably the last thing that the RNZAF wanted at the time - ferrying airmen from Wigram out to Birdlings Flat in 1952 to fight fires accidently started by Harvards firing rockets! My note of this event from Wigram history reads as follows: "15/1/52; Fire breaks out at Birdlings Flat, caused by a slow-burning rocket fired by a Wigram Harvard on an armament sortie. Airmen flown into the Birdlings airfield from Wigram by Oxfords and Ansons, to assist in quelling the outbreak." Seems likely that this was No. 7 Pilots Course.

I also have a note that a new type of rocket equipment was being introduced into RNZAF per ADO N66/1953 of date 27/3/53. Saddle, Rocket, 3.25 inch, Stores Section/Reference number 12N/N8. "Copies of NIV Registers are to be amended." (NIV = Not in Vocabulary, that is, a locally assigned number being introduced as this item was not listed in current relevant RAF Vocabulary.) Whether this type was relevant to Harvards, Mustangs, Mosquitos or Vampires, I do not know as yet.

Another incident re aircraft rockets at Birdlings Flat was the crash of Harvard NZ1020 from FTS at Wigram on 15/4/57. This was piloted by "one of the most experienced Hastings pilots in the RNZAF", by the name of F/L B McGill. His passenger was a civilian newspaper journalist (and Naval Reserve officer); both men were killed. The pilot was engaged in making certain that the field was clear of sheep prior to the students beginning practice rocket attacks. Many a topdressing pilot was killed or injured whilst undertaking similar "sheep clearance" swoops preparatory to landing at topdressing strips on arrival from their base.
I believe such procedures were later banned, at least among the topdressing fraternity, I think the farmer was supposed to be responsible for providing a safe strip for the aircraft with his dogs, although cannot verify this. It would also seem likely that, had this crash NOT occurred, some nice photographs of Harvards letting rip with their rockets may have appeared in the relevant newspaper a few days later.

[Dave Homewood]

So that article that read, "Pilot trainees of the Royal New Zealand Air Force will fire rockets for the first time in Canterbury this week when they go to the bombing range at Birdling’s Flat for gunnery and bombing exercises" was therefore referring to the students' first time rather than the RNZAF's first time, as I'd assumed. Thanks David.

[davidd]

Yep, that is my reading of the various items on this thread. They were the first trainee pilots to carry out rocketry practise. Of course rocketry practise was also carried out earlier in NZ at Ardmore, 1945, and I think they were also talking of introducing rocketry in the forward area late in the war (probably at Los Negros). As to whether RP training was undertaken in Japan, I am not certain. Call up the brains trust.

[avenger]

Prior to the weapons course commencement I referred to as being in May 1958, the pupils were shown the minor ridge that Bruce McGill dug his wing into.
A timely warning I recall.

[Dave Homewood]

Looking at some flying logbooks...

Jesse de Willimoff fired rockets from Ardmore based F4U's "42" on 14 Jan 1946 and "67" on 16 Jan 1946.

In Japan on 10 Feb 46 de Willimoff did 'Rocket Runs (Dry)' in NZ5660. and actual rocket firing on 11 Apr 1946 in NZ5614.

And on the next tour:
Dave Cohu definitely did rocket firing in Japan from FG-1D's NZ5659 (14 Aug 1948) and NZ5656 (15 Aug 1948) as part of Operation Platypus.

So yes, there was a little bit of rocketry done in Japan.