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Post by aeromedia on Nov 5, 2022 4:35:25 GMT 12
Genuine question. Can anyone enlighten me why it is imperative for New Zealand to maintain and rebuild a very expensive base in Antarctic? Yes I hear all the scientific waffle, but what are the real benefits for a nation with plenty to spend it’s money on much closer to home.
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Nov 5, 2022 18:50:28 GMT 12
Don't know, but fair question. I could ask the same about the $$$$(?) apportioned to trees in the last couple of years...
Apparently I'm going to be installing blinds specific for heat retention in the new units for the base. I promise I'll keep it at mates' rates...
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Post by nuuumannn on Nov 14, 2022 12:56:59 GMT 12
Try this: www.scottbaseredevelopment.govt.nz/project"New Zealand is one of the 12 original signatories of the Antarctic Treaty. New Zealand maintains a pre-eminent role in the Antarctic Treaty System and strategic relationships with other national Antarctic programmes. To have influence in the Antarctic Treaty System, New Zealand must continue to: Have a credible ongoing presence in Antarctica, particularly in the Ross Sea region, and Conduct high quality Antarctic science. In addition to our presence on the ice, New Zealand’s interests are enhanced through the position of Christchurch as an Antarctic gateway city. In 2017, this brought over $190 million directly to the New Zealand economy."
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 14, 2022 17:18:48 GMT 12
Our continuing presence is important. Think of all that good arable land we will have and can move to once all the pesky ice has melted and New Zealand is too hot to live in... Not that any of that will happen.
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Post by Antonio on Nov 14, 2022 19:13:02 GMT 12
Our continuing presence is important. Think of all that good arable land we will have and can move to once all the pesky ice has melted and New Zealand is too hot to live in... Not that any of that will happen.
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Post by typerated on Nov 15, 2022 17:29:12 GMT 12
For one thing Scott Base is one of the nearest research stations to Thwaites and Pine Island Glaciers.
They will be responsible for unbelievable amounts of Sea Level rise and its coming pretty shorty.
Buckle up it’s going to be quite a ride.
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Post by madmax on Nov 15, 2022 20:38:33 GMT 12
Im not holding my breath where sealevel rise is concerned
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Post by typerated on Nov 16, 2022 8:11:33 GMT 12
Im not holding my breath where sealevel rise is concerned You probably don’t need to. Although it’s a very quick change in geological terms you personally have enough time to move yourself and your belongings to higher ground. Sea level is currently rising at around 4mm a year but it is picking up pace as ice melt is overtaking thermal expansion as the main cause.
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Post by madmax on Nov 16, 2022 11:50:16 GMT 12
I think you've been listening to to many Al Gore's, Tim Flannery's and that kiddie Gretta Thunberg
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Post by tbf2504 on Nov 16, 2022 13:20:42 GMT 12
Scott Base will survive a sea level rise as it is on the permanent rock and about 25-30 metres above the current ice-shelf. However, the trouble will come with the ice runways and if they can sustain the heavier aircraft
if the thickness decreases because of warming. Then we have a logistical support problem
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Post by noooby on Nov 16, 2022 16:38:18 GMT 12
I think you've been listening to to many Al Gore's, Tim Flannery's and that kiddie Gretta Thunberg You are correct there madmax. According to the fine people at the Royal Society a decade long study of global tide gauges, level gauges and satellite data do debunk the myth that the sea levels have risen 4mm in the past year. It is 3.6mm per year (average) over the last decade. Thanks for the headsup typerated. Interesting info.
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Post by madmax on Nov 16, 2022 18:32:22 GMT 12
More than 30 years ago when I was contemplating purchasing a beach house on an Asian island the doom, gloom and dispair merchants were at it then. I read predictions that sea levels where i was going to buy would increase 3 - 4 metres over the next fifty years. Well i took no notice of those so called "climate experts" and went ahead and bought the property anyway. Three decades later I'm sitting there writing this the sea level had not percepibly risen and offical records indicate sea levels here havw not risen since record keepimg commenced, although i have no idea when that was
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Post by madmax on Nov 16, 2022 18:40:37 GMT 12
PS, apologies for all the typo errors in my last post however i'm doing this on my phone and black typeface against a dark redish/brown background is difficult to manage.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 16, 2022 21:28:11 GMT 12
I remember the media reporting in the 1980s that the sea level was rising so dramatically that all the houses at Waihi Beach would be under water by the turn of the century. Not sure which century.
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Post by madmax on Nov 17, 2022 0:43:37 GMT 12
Dave, people are so easily sucked in, we've witnessed that graphically during the Covid pandemic with millions of qAnon followers spouting absolute nonsense
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Post by typerated on Nov 17, 2022 8:48:22 GMT 12
More than 30 years ago when I was contemplating purchasing a beach house on an Asian island the doom, gloom and dispair merchants were at it then. I read predictions that sea levels where i was going to buy would increase 3 - 4 metres over the next fifty years. Well i took no notice of those so called "climate experts" and went ahead and bought the property anyway. Three decades later I'm sitting there writing this the sea level had not percepibly risen and offical records indicate sea levels here havw not risen since record keepimg commenced, although i have no idea when that was I can well believe you might not have noticed any change. NASA measures the change as just over 10 cm since 1993 - I can’t imagine I’d notice it either just by eye. climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/sea-level/ (I’m sure you will be happy with NASA as a source! can get more credible than than NASA!) But it is rising and the speed is increasing! Thermal expansion is being overtaken by ice melt as the main driver of rise. The glaciers in West Antarctica are quite possibly past a tipping point and we are staring down 7 or 8 meters of extra water geologically soon! The science of the West Antarctica glacier retreat is fascinating if you have an engineering or science bent. This give a good explanation, again by NASA So by the end of the century we are looking at nearer toward a meter of rise (maybe more ) and it will keep rising for centuries. And just compound that in NZ – parts of our coast is sinking as fast as the sea is rising www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/466262/sea-levels-rising-twice-as-fast-as-thought-in-new-zealandHappy Days
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Post by madmax on Nov 17, 2022 10:09:11 GMT 12
I agree that one coast line of NZ is sinking while another is rising due to tectonic plate movement but, as I said, I'm not holding my breath waiting for sea levels to rise
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Post by typerated on Nov 17, 2022 18:46:43 GMT 12
Is it the rate you are arguing about or do you don't believe sea levels are rising ?
So you know the world is over 1C warmer than it was pre industrial times and that water expands when it warms (also melts ice too)?
The science could not be simpler...
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Post by madmax on Nov 18, 2022 3:00:50 GMT 12
I am not arguing, just voicing my opinion
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Post by nuuumannn on Nov 20, 2022 11:53:10 GMT 12
Try this. "Many U.S. Pacific islands are atolls fringed with coral reefs and have maximum elevations of 3–5 meters, with mean elevations of 1–2 meters. Sea level in the western Pacific Ocean has been increasing at a rate 2–3 times the global average, resulting in almost 0.3 meters of net rise since 1990. The 2012 US National Climate Assessment provided global sea level rise scenarios that ranged from 0.2 to 2.0 meters by 2100. Regional scenarios are needed. A high surf event in December 2008 overwashed numerous atolls in Micronesia, ruining freshwater supplies and destroying agriculture on approximately 60% of the inhabited islands. Sea-level rise will exacerbate the hazards posed by climate change (storms, waves, temperatures, precipitation, etc.) to infrastructure, freshwater supplies, agriculture, and habitats for threatened and endangered species on U.S. and U.S.-affiliated atoll islands." From here: www.usgs.gov/centers/pcmsc/science/impact-sea-level-rise-and-climate-change-pacific-ocean-atollsOr this: "Global mean sea level (GMSL) is rising (virtually certain) and accelerating (high confidence). The sum of glacier and ice sheet contributions is now the dominant source of GMSL rise (very high confidence). GMSL from tide gauges and altimetry observations increased from 1.4 mm yr–1 over the period 1901–1990 to 2.1 mm yr–1 over the period 1970–2015 to 3.2 mm yr–1 over the period 1993–2015 to 3.6 mm yr–1 over the period 2006–2015 (high confidence). The dominant cause of GMSL rise since 1970 is anthropogenic forcing (high confidence). {4.2.2.1.1, 4.2.2.2} GMSL was considerably higher than today during past climate states that were warmer than pre-industrial, including the Last Interglacial (LIG; 129–116 ka), when global mean surface temperature was 0.5ºC–1.0ºC warmer, and the mid-Pliocene Warm Period (mPWP; ~3.3 to 3.0 million years ago), 2ºC–4ºC warmer. Despite the modest global warmth of the Last Interglacial, GMSL was likely 6–9 m higher, mainly due to contributions from the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets (GIS and AIS, respectively), and unlikely more than 10m higher (medium confidence). Based on new understanding about geological constraints since the IPCC 5th Assessment Report (AR5), 25 m is a plausible upper bound on GMSL during the mPWP (low confidence)." From here: www.ipcc.ch/srocc/chapter/chapter-4-sea-level-rise-and-implications-for-low-lying-islands-coasts-and-communities/
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