Spitfire Gurus I need your help

[Calum]

Hi All

I working on a 485 Sqn Mk 9 Spitfire. I wanted to do NH432/OU-D which was flown by Max Collet.

The aeromaster sheet mentions that

"This C wing A/C had the 20mm guns moved to the outer bays and a 50 caliber M.G. installed inboard."

This site www.ipmscanada.com/threads/th29-Spitfire%20c%20vs%20e%20wing-01.html
seems to explain things well.

But I'd like some pictures of this set up, particularly the installation of the 0.50 cal guns.

Typically I was all ready to paint this thing and I noticed the small print.

Any one able to help?

Thanks

[kiwichappers]

Callum,
There is a picture of NH432 in 'No.485 (N.Z.) Squadron 1941-1945 Spitfire' by Paul Sortehaug & Phil Listemann which shows the outer machine apertures which confirms the 'C' wing configuration. If as the IPMS Canada link suggests there is little difference between the internal structure of the 'C' and 'E' wings then there is useful reference sketches on page 116 of the Modellers Datafile 'The Supermarine Spitfire part 1: Merlin Powered' by Robert Humphreys showing a 0.5 Browning mounted in the inner bay. If you do not have access to this book I could scan the page for you.

As an aside I have a picture of a Mk.V flown by PO C.E. Broad [RAF] on Malta during the seige fitted with 2 20mm cannons in the two inner bays. This was also a field adaption so as we know almost anything is possible, especially where Kiwis are concerned.

Hope this helps.

[smithy]

Hi Calum,

Just scanned this quickly for you. Hope it helps. If you would like more detailed diagrams including cross-sections of the C and E type wings just PM me and I'll scan some more stuff for you.

Anyway this might do it



Also I've got quite a lot of stuff on 485 so let me know if there's anything specific you would like in relation to that as well.

Cheers,

Tim.

[smithy]

OK, I've just been having a look in my books of NH432. Here's my thoughts...

The cannons have been placed in the outboard positions which suggests that .50s have been placed inboard. There would be no reason to move the cannons outboard if retaining the standard C type .30 Brownings.

I'd disagree with Kiwichappers assumption of .30 openings in the wings of NH432. There appears to be "patches" not apertures where the .30s would be but I believe these may be panel coverings, possibly added if the wing armament was upgraded to E type configuration.

Remember that E type wing armament (2x 20mm and 2 x .50) supposedly started to appear very early in 485 in October 1943. I would find it hard to believe that by mid to late '44 when NH432 was operating, that C type armaments would still be in operational service in the squadron.

Just my 2c worth,

Smithy.

[Calum]

kiwichappers said:

Callum,
There is a picture of NH432 in 'No.485 (N.Z.) Squadron 1941-1945 Spitfire' by Paul Sortehaug & Phil Listemann which shows the outer machine apertures which confirms the 'C' wing configuration. .



Hope this helps.

Thanks Kiwichappers

I found the images in the Modellers datafile you mentioned (If forgot I had a copy Doh)

I'm not sure I understand your reply. Did NH432 have the C wing with 0.50 in the inner bays as suggested in the decal sheet?

If so were the .303 openings exposed or t blanked off?

[Calum]

smithy said:

OK, I've just been having a look in my books of NH432. Here's my thoughts...

The cannons have been placed in the outboard positions which suggests that .50s have been placed inboard. There would be no reason to move the cannons outboard if retaining the standard C type .30 Brownings.

I'd disagree with Kiwichappers assumption of .30 openings in the wings of NH432. There appears to be "patches" not apertures where the .30s would be but I believe these may be panel coverings, possibly added if the wing armament was upgraded to E type configuration.

Remember that E type wing armament (2x 20mm and 2 x .50) started to appear in 485 in October 1943. I would find it hard to believe that by mid to late '44 when NH432 was operating, that C type armaments would still be in operational service in the squadron.

Just my 2c worth,

Smithy.

Smithy

Thanks for this. I'm leaning towards this although I will have rescribe the .303 panels which is going to be a pain.

I'm assuming the cartridge ejection holes are blanked of as well?

[smithy]

Hi Calum,

You'll see in the scan that I posted above that it says that it's a late E wing. I'll have to look through my things but I'm fairly certain the underwing ejection chutes on early ones merely had plain panels put in place.

[Calum]

Hi Smithy

I noticed that it was a E wing. I figure, like you that they would be panelled up

[smithy]

Hold on, Calum, a Norwegian mate of mine is asking around to see if he can get a definitive answer.

He sent me some pics which appeared to show E wing armaments with the Browning ejection chutes showing but they are a tad fuzzy.

I'll let you know what he comes back with...

[Calum]

No worries. It's on hold ;-) Been working on the Rafale

[Dave Homewood]

Calum,

Perhaps Max himself can assist you with info and pictures. His email is linked to this page (he runs the No. 485 (NZ) Squadron Association) as [e-mail] and I've contacted him in the past via it.

www.rafweb.org/Sqn485-490.htm