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Post by corsair67 on Dec 14, 2006 16:12:21 GMT 12
The ADF will be stuffed if the Brits pull the pin on this program, as they're threatening to do!
This story is from AFP
Australia signs for new fighter jet
From correspondents in Washington
December 13, 2006.
AUSTRALIA today signed to join the United States and other allies in the next phase of development and production of a costly new generation of warplane, the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF).
"The Joint Strike Fighter will see Australia through the next 30-40 years," Defence Minister Brendan Nelson said after signing the memorandum of understanding for the Canberra government at the State Department.
The ceremony was witnessed by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer, who were also holding their annual bilateral ministerial conference here today.
Mr Nelson said the multi-role JSF, also known as the F-35 Lightning II, was "most certainly the correct aircraft for Australia in terms of combat and strike capabilities".
The agreement brings Australia into the "production, sustainment and follow-on development" phase of the $US270 billion ($344.81 billion) program to develop the JSF, which is scheduled to make its maiden flight this week.
Under the deal, Australia will be part of a coalition to cooperatively develop, produce, test, train and operate the JSF.
Australian officials have said a formal decision to actually purchase the combat aircraft will be made in 2008, with delivery set to begin in 2012.
The Government of Prime Minister John Howard, one of US President George W. Bush's closest allies, chose the JSF over a rival European fighter to replace the country's aging fleet of US F/A-18 fighters and F-111 bombers.
If confirmed, it is expected to be the biggest military procurement project in Australian history, worth at least $US11.5 billion ($14.69 billion).
Lockheed Martin is the main contractor for the aircraft, also known as the F-35, while Northrop Grumman and BAE Systems are main partners.
The US Defence Department plans to buy 2400 of the stealthy multi-role fighters, and international sales could account for another 2000 to 3500 aircraft.
Australia has been one of eight countries involved in the JSF program's development phase.
The Netherlands signed a similar memorandum of understanding last month, and Britain, slated to be the aircraft's main foreign buyer, is in talks to follow suit, despite anger over a Pentagon decision to cut funding for a back-up engine for the plane which would have been built by Rolls-Royce.
Denmark, Italy, Norway and Turkey have also been involved in the program.
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Post by corsair67 on Dec 15, 2006 17:51:25 GMT 12
Well, isn't this interesting?  ?? (Curious to know why the RAAF is supposedly only buying the twin-seat F/A-18F model - maybe a typo in there?) Defence spending 'a mess'December 15, 2006. LABOR has labelled Australia's defence acquisition program a mess, as the Government considers spending $2 billion on aircraft as a stop-gap measure while it waits for the new, high-tech joint strike fighter (JSF). Australia may buy a squadron of 24 F-18F Super Hornet fighter jets as back-up amid growing concerns over delays in the delivery of the JSF. Fairfax newspapers reported that Defence Minister Brendan Nelson had confirmed that the Government was in discussions with the US government for the purchase of the Super Hornets. The aircraft are likely to cost about $90 million each. The move is an apparent about-face for the government, which has repeatedly said there would be no need for a stop-gap to fill the hole between the phase-out of the RAAF's fleet of aging F/A-18 Hornets and F-111s and the introduction of the JSF. Labor Leader Kevin Rudd said today that while he had not seen the report, the Government's defence acquisition program was "a mess". "It is full of waste and inefficiency. It's a massive defence budget we have got and it's a budget that has been badly spent on so many projects." Mr Rudd said Labor would hold the government accountable on waste and mismanagement in defence. The possible purchase of Super Hornets comes amid fears that countries in the region are buying new Russian aircraft considered far superior to Australia's F/A-18s and F-111s. Australia's F-111s have been flown for 40 years and are likely to be grounded after 2012, but the first JSF is not due to be delivered to Australia until 2013. In Washington this week to sign a memorandum of understanding of Australia's commitment to the JSF, Dr Nelson signalled the Government still intended to buy up to 100 JSFs at a total cost of about $16 billion. But Dr Nelson said he would not leave Australia with a fighter aircraft capability gap. "We remain 100 per cent committed to the JSF," Dr Nelson told Fairfax. "But I am not prepared to take the risk of allowing a capability gap to occur." Plans call for the Super Hornet to be delivered in 2010, though the first planes might arrive in 2008. The deputy chief of the air force, Air Vice Marshal John Blackburn, all but ruled out the need for a stop-gap jet in October. "We are confident that, with the program as it is currently progressing, we shouldn't need an interim solution," he said. "However, as with most things in defence we are looking at contingency plans ... However I don't think there is any likelihood of that having to be before us and we have full confidence of the program delivering the JSF on time," he said. |
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Post by Barnsey on Dec 15, 2006 19:36:49 GMT 12
My take on why the F model is being touted is that the RAAF headshed is by and large made up of navigators and ex F111 pilots...... There'll be a few internal cat-fights over who gets to fly the more capable airframe!
A decision right up there with double winged brevets for navigators!
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Post by corsair67 on Dec 15, 2006 19:43:16 GMT 12
Well, gotta keep those navs in a job, I guess.  Maybe they should be ordering F-15E Eagles instead? |
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Post by FlyNavy on Dec 15, 2006 21:19:57 GMT 12
Won't these dual seaters make good "Growlers"? ECM aircraft when needed? (amongst their other good uses in the meantime). I'm not going to buy into any ‘RAAF bashing’. :-) FLY NAVY
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Post by Calum on Dec 16, 2006 8:52:29 GMT 12
My take on why the F model is being touted is that the RAAF headshed is by and large made up of navigators and ex F111 pilots...... There'll be a few internal cat-fights over who gets to fly the more capable airframe! A decision right up there with double winged brevets for navigators! Don't all ADF aircrew now have double winged Brevets? I agree it's stupid, always hated the RAN brevets/wings, can never tell who is what (except like all aircrew they shouldn't be allowed to do anything without adult supervision ;D) Also I'm sure the ADF has got rid of navigators now, they have another name, it's a generic name for all commissioned aircrew as they aren't training navigators any more. No real need for them any more, |
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Post by Calum on Dec 16, 2006 8:53:25 GMT 12
Won't these dual seaters make good "Growlers"? ECM aircraft when needed? (amongst their other good uses in the meantime). I'm not going to buy into any ‘RAAF bashing’. :-) FLY NAVY not as good as the real growler |
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Post by Calum on Dec 16, 2006 8:55:42 GMT 12
Well, gotta keep those navs in a job, I guess. Maybe they should be ordering F-15E Eagles instead? If the RAAF get the S/H I'd think they may lease them aka the F-4's prior to the F-111 delivery. It would make sense, espeically considering we're committed to the JSF |
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Post by corsair67 on Dec 20, 2006 9:47:57 GMT 12
Maybe NZ can pick these up for a song once the ADF has finished with them???  $3bn on Super Hornet fightersPatrick Walters, National security editor December 20, 2006. DEFENCE Minister Brendan Nelson intends to ram through a $3 billion purchase of 24 F/A-18F Super Hornet aircraft, amid concerns Australia may lack a fully deployable air combat capability early next decade. Dr Nelson has accelerated plans to buy the upgraded Hornets through a US Defence Department purchase from the US navy. His swift action came as a surprise to senior defence officials on Russell Hill. The decision to buy an expensive interim fighter will generate a major rethink of the 2006-16 defence capability plan, with the prospect of a cut in the 100-strong Joint Strike Fighter fleet planned for the RAAF. Senior defence sources said Dr Nelson wanted to run no risk of an air combat capability gap, with the F-111 strike force due to retire in 2010. A key concern is that the Joint Strike Fighter, destined to become the RAAF's new frontline combat aircraft, may be subject to congressional budget cuts, leading to production delays. On current plans, the first JSF squadron will enter operational service in Australia in 2014-15. Acquiring a full squadron of Super Hornets from 2009-10 will enable the RAAF to retire its 22 operational F-111s in 2010 without the need for a further costly extension of their service life. It would also mean the air force could reduce to 42 the number of aircraft taking part in the full $1.5 billion Hornet upgrade program. A decision on an interim fighter solution was expected early in 2007, but Dr Nelson chose to go public with the Super Hornet plan during his visit to the US last week. The F/A-18F has been in service with the US navy since 1998 and has recently seen service in Afghanistan and Iraq. Dr Nelson decided to opt for the Super Hornet without a detailed study of alternative aircraft types such as the US air force's F-15 Eagle or the European Typhoon. The Super Hornet offers some commonalities with the Australian air force's existing Hornet fleet and a relatively easy conversion for air crew, air force sources say. Andrew Davies of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute said the planned purchase raised serious cost and capability issues. "Its another fourth-generation aircraft. It's not the quantum lift that JSF gives you," Dr Davies said. "Either something will have to give way in the defence capability plan, or the Government will have to supplement the defence budget." |
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Post by planeimages on Dec 20, 2006 10:50:11 GMT 12
Craig,
An old expression for "double-winged brevet" is biala wing brevet. Ala is classic Latin for Wing ( about the only Latin I know). I came across it while researching my W.E.Hart story.
Peter F
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 20, 2006 11:04:20 GMT 12
What's the difference between a Hornet and a Super Hornet? Is it different engines and Avionice? Or is there more to it.
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Post by corsair67 on Dec 20, 2006 11:38:45 GMT 12
Dave, the Super Hornet is bigger (about 25%), faster, can fly further and is generally much more capable than the classic Hornets.
The HUG program for the RAAF Hornets brings them closer to the capabilities of the F/A-18E and F models, but there's only so much you can do with 20 year old equipment.
There is a growing feeling amongst some aviation people here that the RAAF should ditch the F/A-18A Hornets altogether and replace them completely with F/A-18E/F Super Hornets, thereby giving the ADF more time to sit back and watch the development of the F-35, without rushing into the whole thing.
There are also others who think the RAAF should buy the F-22 as well to boost their dogfighting capabilities and operate alongside the F-35.
It will be interesting to watch the developments on this over the next year or so.
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Post by phil82 on Dec 20, 2006 14:20:54 GMT 12
The last time I was at Avalon [2003?] the Super Hornet was displayed by a company pilot, A US Marine Major I recall, and I remeber thinking "aeroplanes are not supposed to be able to do that".
This guy came up the runway and paused opposite the main stand, in which we were seated, and the aircraft was advertised as carrying 26,000lbs of underwing ordnance. He took off after a very short run, went vertical, did a square loop, and landed! Incredible! It is bigger than the F18. Personally, I thought the RAAF were about to do a straight swap at the time.
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Post by corsair67 on Dec 20, 2006 14:26:41 GMT 12
Colin, there is a piece of video of the Super Hornet doing a display in the US, and like you said, it's pretty impressive in what it can do.
I can't remember where it is on the 'net though, but will see if I can find it.
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Post by beagle on Dec 21, 2006 9:43:28 GMT 12
Just been reading all about the RAAF impending use of the F-18 f super hornet.
For use as a stop gap between the retirement of the F111's and the arrival of the JSF.
Stop gap, pretty expensive stop gap at 3 billion bucks.
If they keep moaning about how little we put to defense, maybe they could give us the 3billion and we could get some new fighters etc.
Looks like they have not made a final decision as yet whether they will be leased or purchased outright, but 3 billion sounds like a pretty expensive lease arrangement.
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Post by corsair67 on Dec 21, 2006 10:30:32 GMT 12
For $3 billion, my feeling is they're buying them. I think Brendan might be hedging his bets somewhat with all this, in case the F-35 program goes seriously pear shaped. Maybe he knows something nobody else knows? |
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Post by FlyNavy on Dec 21, 2006 14:33:19 GMT 12
from: www.adf-serials.com/invboard/index.php?showtopic=466In the Melbourne Age this morning............. ____________________________________________________________________ Unmanned planes on RAAF list Other related coverage Test triumph for new $16bn air defence fleet December 21, 2006 THE RAAF is considering unmanned jets for dangerous attacks on heavily defended targets without risking pilots. The jets would be controlled remotely from the ground or from another aircraft, such as the two-seater Super Hornet. On his recent trip to the US, Defence Minister Brendan Nelson announced that Australia was negotiating to buy up to two dozen Super Hornets, a hugely upgraded version of the F/A-18s operated by Australia. The editor-in-chief of Australian Defence Business Review, Trevor Thomas, said the Super Hornets could provide a bridge to new unmanned combat aircraft. Ultimately, the Unmanned Combat Air Vehicles, or UCAVs, could operate with the versatile Joint Strike Fighter. "That's the future," Mr Thomas said. "We don't like pilots dying in combat." The magazine will report this week that the UCAV has considerable advantages over a conventional aircraft. They are the size of a normal fighter and they are highly manoeuvrable, because designers need not worry about G-forces blacking a pilot out. They could reach thousands of kilometres from Australia, refuelling from aerial tankers on the way, and could conceivably stay aloft for days. Without the weight of the pilot and the life-support system, they could carry more fuel and weapons. Two being developed are Boeing's X-45 and Northrop-Grumman's X-47, both still experimental. The most recent version of the ADF's planning blueprint, the Defence Capability Plan, says the ADF will "investigate acquisition of complementary systems" — longhand for looking at UCAVs. The plan says a decision will be made only after 2014, and if they are considered a good option they will be delivered by 2020. At this stage the UCAV is not considered a viable option because it has not reached the stage where they could defend themselves, and would be "sitting ducks" to attacking fighters. But the companies developing them are confident they can make them more versatile. The technicians who will "fly" these new planes from the ground would now be 15-year-old computer wizards fighting battles in space games. Asked if UCAVs were being considered, an Australian Defence Force spokeswoman referred The Age to the Defence Capability Plan. Mr Thomas said the greatest danger for pilots now was ground attack missions. "They call it SEAD, suppression of enemy air defences," he said. The UCAVs would be "flown" by a technician on the ground or in the back of a two-seater, such as the Super Hornet. They are designed for aircraft carriers. Critics argue that a serious issue would be the lack of a pilot, who can decide to abandon an attack if, for instance, he decides civilians are in danger, as has happened to Australian pilots in Iraq. Mr Thomas said the UCAVs had practised bombing runs, but because they were not yet capable of air-to-air combat they would need to be protected by fighters. They have been flying for three years, and are being evaluated by the US Navy. A decision is expected in 2008. Unmanned aircraft are already heavily involved in Iraq and Afghanistan. www.adbr.com.au |
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