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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 17, 2008 14:25:04 GMT 12
Here is a selection of photos taken on Sunday I went with Kerry (fockewulf) to have a look at the collection at Motat. As many of you know the collection is to have a new home soon in the extended hangar. Here is a model showing what it is intended to look like when completed.   The following are for Bruce who is building a (tiny) Link Trainer model   The weather was very poor so the outdoors shots are not great, but they show the collection sitting out in the rotten weather.   |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 17, 2008 14:34:04 GMT 12
The poor old Lodestar, may it rest in peace...   |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 17, 2008 14:46:39 GMT 12
More photos of the Mossie. It is a beautiful thing   |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 17, 2008 14:53:40 GMT 12
At least the Harvard is looking more like a Harvard these days. It will be nice when the restoration is finished.   |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 17, 2008 15:19:52 GMT 12
Then we move to the Hudson. This aircraft is one of the rarest types they have, and definitely one of the most important types. It is probably the only aircraft in the collection with a genuine combat history (though I'm not sure if the Sunderland saw combat in it's RAF days). It was also the personal aircraft of Sir Geoffrey Roberts when he was C-in-C of the RNZAF in the Pacific later on in WWII.    And the RB-34 Lexington (Ventura). This never saw combat with the RNZAF but may well have back in USAAF service in the Aleutians, I'm not sure. However it is certainly one of a kind in NZ and I don't think there are many other (if any) Lexingtons in the world.   The Belfast hangar has been shifted, but nothing else has begun on the new hangar yet. I hope they get the Mossie, Hudson and Ventura (at least) back into the Belfast hangar temporarily very soon. |
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Post by nzompilot on Apr 17, 2008 15:41:04 GMT 12
Some great photo's Dave.
Really shows how badly they are deteriorating in the open air. I was saddened by how bad some of them look when I was up in Dec 07 but they seem to look a lot worse now only 4-5 months later.
I really hope that the new hangars are built quickly then they can be preserved and repaired, and displayed with the dignity they deserve.
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Post by p40fanatic on Apr 17, 2008 18:08:04 GMT 12
That poor Mossie! It's disappointing that she has to be out in the elements until her new home is completed. Would've been nice if someone could donate hangar space elsewhere until it was ready  ! All the same, thanks for the shots Dave! It's been a few years since I was last there. |
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Post by graemewi on Apr 17, 2008 19:20:59 GMT 12
Just checked the rates bill - we pay a MOTAT levy of $6.10 per year... How many households in the Auckland region?
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Post by Bruce on Apr 17, 2008 19:49:59 GMT 12
Its actually an awkward situation for Motat to be in, the council money is being spent - the whole new building programme thing. I dont like seeing the aircraft outside either, however what options do they have? Buildings such as these take quite a while to put together, and space and access is required. The only alternative would be to move the aircraft to off site storage whilst work is in progress, which for some aircraft would be impossible, and the remaiinder would expose them to higher risk of damage. It would also be prohibitively expensive. One can only hope that once the relocated Belfast hangar has been refurbished that the majority of these machines will get tucked up inside again. The storage arrangements leave a bit to be desired, although all aircraft do have decent engine and canopy covers - possibly a little inexperience and lack of time has meant things arent as well protected as they should be. wrapping up one aircraft for storage is hard enough - the whole fleet of different types is a major exercise. (Maybe Spraylat should have been used as on some airframes in storage at Woodbourne - Phil Goff reckons its great stuff!) Hopefully it will be attended to before winter gets here.
I am concerned about the lodestar though - although it is a "work in progress" there doesnt seem to be any forward progress being made, and its not going to get any better - they would have been better off leaving the "resoration" until after the new hangar was built and spave inside the restoration hangar was available. even though the previous paint finish was in poor condition, it would be better than 3 or 4 years naked to the elements.
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Post by corsair67 on Apr 17, 2008 21:32:42 GMT 12
This is all very depressing. I am intending to visit MoTaT during my visit to Auckland in May, but this almost makes me not feel like going because I'll only get crankier than I usually am! The saddest thing about seeing these all outside is that the volunteers have put so much effort into aircraft like the Mossie, but now they are weathering outside only a short time after the work has been completed. |
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Post by Radialicious on Apr 17, 2008 22:19:43 GMT 12
It is a bit of a tough one to debate. We all know that those at MoTaT are (most likely) just as upset as we are about the predicament that they and their aircraft are in. I didn't know that the Auckland ratepayers each paid a MoTaT levy. It makes you wonder where it goes.
My bottom line is that in todays day and age, it is unacceptable to have a Mosquito parked out in the open in a temperate, humid environment like Auckland - or anywhere. I'll bet there are no (known) remains of a Mosquito lying in the open anywhere in the world let alone a complete restored example. I'll stick up for those at MoTaT because as I say, they won't like it anymore than we do. Those that should care, but don't are parked up in the council offices. I don't wanna tempt fate by saying this, but what if the Mosquito was torched recently instead of the tram nearby.
Very sad.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 17, 2008 22:40:56 GMT 12
Indeed Al, I know what you mean about those people who go along every Wednesday and Saturday or whatever to do their bit. They are indeed enthusiastic and probably as upset as we are to see the aircraft outdoors again.
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Post by Richard Wesley on Apr 18, 2008 5:09:47 GMT 12
Just a few comments... The poor C-47 will still be outdoors, not to mention the Lodestar which probably won't last another ten years and really should be scrapped for the metal value rather than rot outdoors. The DC3 will be placed on display inside the new hangar extension. Because the architect had a spare 1:72 DC3 at hand for the concept model does not mean that this is its planned position. Thousands of dollars I would say were spent on providing custom made covers for all the aircraft outdoors, money spent on further temporary covers would be money not spent on new buildings. It’s a catch twenty two and I think that Norm the aviation manager has the compromise about right. Norm, the man in charge of and driving the final reassembly and restoration of the Mosquito also made the decision that renovation of the workshop to a top quality standard was worth having his baby outside for one Auckland summer. The ‘new paint’ is not ‘already wearing off’, only the wings have new paint. The blue marking paint on the fuse came off when I cleaned the fuselage in the late 1980’s as a teenager and removed some masking tape that had been left on too long. The Lodestar has large corrosion problems no doubt, but these are mainly due to the phosphate fertiliser and 1940’s alloy not getting along well. It’s certainly a pity other priorities have moved in ahead of her. With a store full of Lockheed parts, hard work and care from the Motat team, I have no doubt ZK-BVE will one day look great displayed inside the new hangar. I’ll start worrying about such things when all the aircraft are safely under cover. The Hudson has been waiting to spread its wings since the passing of Barry East in the early 1980’s. Since then vandals have done their work, the aerials were quickly broken by kids or teenagers soon after the move from the old workshop to the belfast hangar in the late 80's, and the limited materials, treatments and paints have not stood up to the test of time. It is a pity that after twenty years in storage (or limited display) she needs to be overhauled again before final display, but this will be an easy job compared to the original restoration of a gutted wreck. The case of the Swordfish is interesting, and I hesitate to agree with you. I think that having a poorly finished replica inside with other real airframes lie outside is not ideal. However, it would seem that if having a Swordfish undercover was what it took to have the Lancaster finally housed, and therefore have the museum really turn the corner in terms of support buildings, money and support, then it is a price to be paid. The Ventura really belongs in the same box as the Hudson, a restored airframe from the 1970’s which is untouched since. Again while I agree it would be nice to have her on the floor of the new building, if this is at the expense of another aircraft remaining outside then sorry, back up the poles she should go. It was a great piece of kiwi ingenuity on then manager Tom Crail’s part to come up with the system in the first place. This allowed so many more aircraft inside out of the weather. |
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Post by flyjoe180 on Apr 18, 2008 8:57:01 GMT 12
Thanks for posting the photos Dave, it has been three years almost since I last visited MOTAT. Did you take any photos of inside the main hangar? Pictures of the Short Solent, Avro Lancaster etc? Has any of that changed?
I'm sure MOTAT will get these aircraft inside as soon as possible once the new hangar is completed. Then they can be restored to a finish that will make people look on in awe of a fine historic aviation collection.
Like Rachael Hunter says, "It won't happen overnight, but it will happen".
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 18, 2008 15:38:41 GMT 12
Did you take any photos of inside the main hangar? Pictures of the Short Solent, Avro Lancaster etc? No, nothing much has changed in there much at all in the past few years, apart from the addition of the architect's model. It's still a great display inside and there's still lots ofbits and pieces of interest in glass cases around the place. I have always found it difficult to photograph the aircraft inside, due to their crammed nature and the fact that on the Lancaster end it's very dark, so I decided not to take much in the way of photos this time, apart from the model and the Link Trainer for Bruce. Even that came out dark and I had to lighten it. I have decided to amend my earlier posts by the way. There's no point being negative I guess. Sorry Richard and the team at Motat. Good luck with the new hangar and the completion of the various aircraft projects. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 18, 2008 16:21:38 GMT 12
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Post by corsair67 on Apr 18, 2008 16:40:15 GMT 12
Richard, I don't think anyone was ever doubting the passion of any of the volunteers at MoTaT - after all, these aircraft are all wonderful examples of the volunteer team's hard work and love of aviation. I am a little sad to see all these wonderful aircraft sitting out in the open again after all the hard work that has been put into them over the years, and just wish they didn't have to be where they are at the moment. My first visit to MoTaT was in 2006, and I had a wonderful time looking over the aircraft collection, and I managed to find a staff member who was able to give me a personal tour of the restoration hangar. The thing that I liked about MoTaT's aircraft collection was that it covers such a wide range of areas, including the often forgotten agricultural aviation sector - which, as we all know, has played a very important part in the economic development of New Zealand over the years. Unfortunately, places like MoTaT don't attract the kind of public and private money that other areas do. I'd personally rather see a few million dollars of public money pumped into a place like MoTaT, rather than being wasted on idiotic events like the Americas Cup or Rugby World Cup!  |
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Post by Richard Wesley on Apr 20, 2008 2:52:34 GMT 12
I've also modified my first comments and must add that for the feeling behind this post I really do actually agree. These national treasures should not be outside now, and they should not have been outside for the last 40 years either. It is heartening to see other enthusiasts gasp too when they see a Mosquito, Hudson, Ventura, Sunderland.. out in the open air. The reality is though that if being outside (for a few months for most of them) will help get them really permanently preserved undercover then I'll hold my breath.
I remember well my first time at Motat II back as a very small boy staring at wonder at the Lancaster surrounded in long grass looking completely forgotten. I was amazed that such a famous and historic aircraft could turn up sitting in a paddock in my own town!? I still feel the same way about the Sunderland.
The problem, as I talked about long and hard with a certain Wings reporter from the 80's, is how do you get action and money and support for the large important Motat aviation? One choice that does get attention is 'shock and indignation', 'mouldering monsters' (and highlighting problems is important) but while this may reach a large audience, make great reading, and have everyone feeling superior, it will also maybe find some support from an unexpected corner, but more often its results in the withdrawal of support from many more quarters. Nobody likes to be associated with a highly criticised and struggling venture.
I'm not actually involved directly with the museum at the moment, being on the other side of the world actually right now. So I'll add my voice here to thanking the current volunteer team at Motat for their their hard work, but also looking forward to seeing as many as possible of the airframes under cover again in the completed Belfast hangar. And to the paid management team, pull out all the stops for fund raising and completing the main hangar extension asap!! Auckland and NZ could finally then really enjoy and be proud of this outstanding collection.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 20, 2008 11:21:46 GMT 12
Thanks Richard. It seems that the ideas flowing from Motat at thye moment are a lot better than they once were, with special events to draw in the public being moe regular. Every third Sunday of the month now they have guided tours of the Solent for example. And there are once again special military weekends and stuff like they had in the early enthusiastic days, which is great and will bring in dollars from punters.
Richard, have you been inside the Ventura at all? I was wondering if it's as complete inside as the Hudson?
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Post by Richard Wesley on Apr 22, 2008 5:33:26 GMT 12
The Ventura is very complete internally from memory, although I have to admit that my memory is not great and it was well over ten years ago that I was inside. It would have been just before lifting her onto the poles in the Belfast hangar. We had the engine cowlings off and gave her a good clean before the lift. I have some photos in storage at home which I'll scan and post one day when I return to New Zealand.
The job that Barry East did on both the Hudson and Ventura really was a leap ahead of its time. Bringing two Lockheed scrap yard wrecks back to complete airframes really was a lasting achievement of his.
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