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Post by Kenny on Apr 29, 2008 9:25:36 GMT 12
Defence force ammunition stored in leaky warehouses
Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:40a.m.
[img src="http://www.tv3.co.nz/Portals/0-Articles/54057/warship_Te-Mana[1]_180.jpg"] HMNZS Te Mana
About 30 naval shells used by the Anzac frigates Te Kaha and Te Mana and valued at $120,000, were written off after they were damaged by water coming through the roof of a leaky warehouse, a defence report has revealed.
The Ministry of Defence said the country's military ordnance, including missiles, guns, bombs, explosives and ammunition worth $155 million, was being stored in leaky warehouses with poor security.
The report, details of which were published in today's Dominion Post, said the Kauri Point warehouse, which stores most of the navy's ordnance on the northern side of Auckland's Waitemata Harbour, was leaking so badly 30 shells used on the Anzac frigates' main guns had to be written off after they were damaged by water.
The report also revealed Kauri Point had poor security fencing.
It said all but five of the military's 120 weapons storehouses were built before or during World War 2 and nearly half were "unserviceable".
Kauri Point consists of a series of 41 storehouses scattered around a large military site but only two were in good condition.
The report also said the air force's bulk depot at Ohakea could hold only small arms ammunition and pyrotechnics, like flares because of safety concerns.
The air force's bombs, torpedoes and depth charges were stored by the navy in tunnels at Whangaparaoa north of Auckland.
The army depot at Glentunnel, near Christchurch, was well fenced and security was adequate.
A defence spokesman told The Dominion Post issues raised in the report would be lookedat later this year.
NZPA
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rocco
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 71
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Post by rocco on May 2, 2008 16:04:13 GMT 12
I've read the report. The issues are much larger than what the story mentions. Looks like Army is empire-building again. There was a submission from them that said Kauri Pt depot could be replaced by a larger storage facility at ATG.
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Post by phil on May 2, 2008 18:04:52 GMT 12
I've heard it's very easy to unload ships at ATG too....
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Post by nige on May 4, 2008 0:21:58 GMT 12
I've read the report. The issues are much larger than what the story mentions. Looks like Army is empire-building again. There was a submission from them that said Kauri Pt depot could be replaced by a larger storage facility at ATG. Sorry, I doubt a lot of us here would have had the pleasure or opportunity to read the report. Could you outline what these are larger issues are? Doh! What's ATG? |
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Post by phil on May 4, 2008 10:27:00 GMT 12
ATG - Army Training Group, ie Waiouru!
Ohakea will be getting some kind of new storage facility in the future, presumably as part of Takitini (or Taki-tiny or Taki-mini as it's cynically referred to). After HSNO came in, all the bombs were suddenly far more dangerous than they had been for the previous 50 years and we could not hold them any more. Thank a civy at navy for that one.
I think the plans are for igloos, but I haven't seen the plans.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 4, 2008 10:56:22 GMT 12
Don't panic Phil. There's HMNZS Base Iririrangi is near Waiouru. The ships can unload there.  That's probably what the politicians are thinking... As for old poorly stored ammunition, what of it. We sent our boys off to war with it in WWII, and we still won... |
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rocco
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 71
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Post by rocco on May 4, 2008 13:27:43 GMT 12
I'll write somethign about the report more fully this evening.
The Ohakea upgrade is talked about, but it sounds like it's only going to be a depot for small arms ammunition and chaff/flares. No guided weapons storage or bombs.
In know you lot (Dave) are cynical about politicieans (and rightly so), but the the idea of storing ammunition for ships didn't come from that direction - it was straight from the Army.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 4, 2008 13:43:25 GMT 12
Fair enough Rocco. My first point was just tongue in cheek.
My second point however is deadly true. No. 3 (GR) Squadron were sent to the Pacific with WWI ammunition in 1943, most of which jammed in the guns while they were 'working up' in New Caledonia. Thankfully they were resupplied with better ammo before moving onto Guadalcanal.
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Post by 30sqnatc on May 4, 2008 19:27:19 GMT 12
Don't panic Phil. There's HMNZS Base Iririrangi is near Waiouru. The ships can unload there. That's probably what the politicians are thinking... As for old poorly stored ammunition, what of it. We sent our boys off to war with it in WWII, and we still won... Whats the problem - sail up the Waikato River, jumping a few dams on the way, through the Tongario Power Station tunnels and into Lake Maowhango in the middle of the Waiouru training area. There is even a slipway for unloading which was part of the old road to the tunnel construction village. Thats the trouble these days, no lateral thinking  Paul |
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Post by 30sqnatc on May 4, 2008 19:31:21 GMT 12
I've read the report. The issues are much larger than what the story mentions. Looks like Army is empire-building again. There was a submission from them that said Kauri Pt depot could be replaced by a larger storage facility at ATG. In our risk adverse country I wonder how much longer the local councils will let NZDF keep a major ammo depot, and now claimed to be a poorly maitained one, in the middle of Auckand City. Paul |
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 4, 2008 19:53:04 GMT 12
The Army used to have riverboats plying the mighty Waikato supplying the troops in the olden days. So maybe you are onto something there Paul.
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Post by nige on May 4, 2008 23:48:01 GMT 12
Just wondering then, when the P3's bomb up at Ohakea, does that mean the Mk82's come via road from Kauri Point? Nevermind the HASNO act etc, isn't that a greater safety risk to the public e.g. truck crash (or "hijack" by that bunch of plowshares group etc)?
If I'm reading correctly what is being said here, even bombs aren't stored at Ohakea now? If so, it seems logical to me to store Air Force ordanance at an air force base. What better place than Ohakea, remote, rural and secure i.e. within the base perimeter and with its own base security etc.
In fact, defence politics aside, it could even serve as a "secondary" army munitions dump for Linton (with the bulk of the munitions primarily at Waiouru of course) which I suppose would be mortar shells and LAV 25mm ammo etc (although what's wrong with storing this stuff at Linton anyway)? If at Ohakea, it would be simple to load them onto a C-130 if off on a serious deployment etc.
And out of curiosity, where were the A4 Mavs, LGB's and rockets stored before the strike squadrons were disbanded?
As for Whenuapai, wouldn't it make sense to store the P3 and Seasprite ordanance there or is this a no-no due to the proximity of civilian housing etc?
This becomes quite interesting the more one thinks about it!
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Post by phil on May 5, 2008 9:17:35 GMT 12
You are correct on pretty much everything. The bulk of the P3 bombs are at KP. I can't really elaborate on the procedures for transporting them around the country for obvious reasons.
Despite being 'remote' Ohakea is not remote enough for 1.1D (ie HE) under the new HSNO laws, and we have to get a special dispensation to hold the bombs at Ohakea when we bomb up P3s.
We hold some of Linton's stocks, not sure what though.
Prior to HSNO we stored a lot of the ACF stock at Ohakea, the rest at KP, or in an old army store near Pahiatua, Makomako I think it was called.
HSNO is definitely not our friend!
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rocco
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 71
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Post by rocco on May 5, 2008 11:31:05 GMT 12
In fact, defence politics aside, it could even serve as a "secondary" army munitions dump for Linton (with the bulk of the munitions primarily at Waiouru of course) which I suppose would be mortar shells and LAV 25mm ammo etc (although what's wrong with storing this stuff at Linton anyway)? If at Ohakea, it would be simple to load them onto a C-130 if off on a serious deployment etc. No point in storing that stuff at Linton - there isn't a 25mm firing range and I think the mortar impact area has been closed too (flight path problems with the PN airport. have a read of the environmental impact report last year). The Burnham group is designed as the QRF at the moment, and there is a quantity of CRS (contingency reserve stock) ammunition held down there for that purpose. The bulk of the CRS is held at WTG, because it is rotated with training stock frequently to ensure nothing expires. Kauri Point makes sense as a secondary facilitiy so the MRV can on-load their. It's also the only designated sea port of arival for explosives in New Zealand in that quantity. |
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