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Post by hairy on Apr 29, 2008 21:43:17 GMT 12
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Post by DragonflyDH90 on Apr 29, 2008 21:52:08 GMT 12
Good point....
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 29, 2008 22:43:05 GMT 12
Very good point.
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Post by flyjoe180 on Apr 29, 2008 23:10:41 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 29, 2008 23:12:46 GMT 12
I have sent a message to the seller to politely enquire how it left MOTAT. I'll let you know if there's a reply.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 30, 2008 9:59:36 GMT 12
The seller has now kindly replied with this info:
"The fabric was acquired at Shuttleworth in 1974, by an RNZAF officer posted to the RAF College at Cranwell, just as the aircraft entered restoration to return it to flying condition. Upon return to New Zealand, the officer loaned the fabric to MoTaT, they built the case, and it was displayed at the museum for the next 11 years. After retirement from the RNZAF in 1987, the officer moved to Canada, and the fabric was returned (in the display case) to him for shipment to Canada. It has since been kept in private homes in Ottawa, Canada."
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Post by FlyNavy on Apr 30, 2008 12:32:35 GMT 12
Would your MOTAT want to buy it back? Or is is not significant? I have no idea.
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Post by Richard Wesley on May 10, 2008 1:01:52 GMT 12
Mmmmm, interesting story, sounds that it is all above board. Loans, and ownership generally is a problem for museums. I was involved on the sidelines of one big argument between the main museums of Auckland and Christchurch over the ownership of Hillary's everest climbing equipment. After the files and history were searched it turned out that ownership of the collection lay with another group altogether, even after 50 years on museum display in Christchurch?!?
Motat has had huge problems with items being 'given' to the museum, only to later be claimed only as loan items. Without explicit paperwork showing a donation, that is a legal transfer of title, it can be very hard to prove one way or another whether an item was donated or simply on long term loan. The ever increasing value of vintage aircraft, especially WWII fighters, also creates a situation where an item was worthless when obtained by the museum, but is now worth big dollars. (examples would be Kittyhawk NZ3009, and Corsair NZ5612, both reclaimed out of museum ownership).
I think I even glanced at a previous post about Motat's ownership of the Avro Lancaster that put me on edge for the same reasons. I hope that there is safely a piece paper signing the ownership of the airframe over to Motat (I don't think 'the people of NZ' is a legal entity except for the crown itself) or maybe in the future the French could claim ownership for one of their museums. In the heady days of the 1960's when the bulk of the aircraft collection was put together the last thing anyone was thinking about was paperwork.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 11, 2008 13:24:20 GMT 12
I would think that since the Lancaster donation by the Government of France to the Government of New Zealand (ie the people of this country) and had nothing to do with Motat in the deal, there will be paperwork. Probably in triplicate.
Apparently our Government then chose where they would display it. As there was no RNZAF Museum then and the likes of Auckland and Wellington Museums could not take it, it went to the 'care' of the largest aviation collection on public display. I have no idea whether it was subsequently transferred to Motat's personal ownership but I cannot see why it would. There was serious discussion of moving it from Motat several times in the 1980's when it was sadly neglected, and my reading of that was if it had been decided to do so Motat wouldn't have had a choice.
Of course, al this could be wrong. You know how many rumours and misunderstandings surround Motat..
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Post by Richard Wesley on May 11, 2008 21:01:47 GMT 12
Thanks for the background Dave, I've never heard that before. Makes me even more mad that if the government owns it money was not more forthcoming for a hangar when it was still in good ground running condition.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 12, 2008 12:45:59 GMT 12
As I said, this is what I've been told and may be wrong. Maybe some of your mates at MOTAT can confirm or deny this account.
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