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Post by Dave Homewood on May 6, 2008 3:36:02 GMT 12
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Post by camtech on May 6, 2008 19:25:29 GMT 12
Dave,
The address of PO Box at Otaki was an old address for Wings Magazine, and without looking it up, I am sure these photos were either in Wings or taken for Wings. May 1972 rings a bell.
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Post by denysjones on May 6, 2008 19:31:00 GMT 12
Hi Dave,
These pix are of the crash site at Otaki which was located by guys from the Aviation Historical Society WLG branch mainly led by Ross MacPherson, Ross Dunlop, and Mitch Lovett. You can see Mitch second from left in the pic showing the 4 guys.
Given that Ross Mac lived at Otaki and edited Wings then I'd say PO Box 120 was the PO Box.
The Maori member of the group who you see in several shots was one of a number from a local tramping group who went on the hunt and it was he who actually found the a/c. He'd got separated from the group and walked along a ridge for some time and then heard the rest of the team below him. So he set off down slope and literally blundered through the wreck.
Ultimately the remains went off to MoTaT but no before the site was raided by people led in by some of the non-AHSNZ participants in the find. I visited the site after it had been raided, with RossM and Mitch, and was shown where plates had been hacked off the Kestrel etc.
Somewhere I've some (aged) colour shots of it.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 6, 2008 20:51:38 GMT 12
Really interesting. I never knew that a Hind had been lost and found in the bush at Otaki.
I knew PO Bos 120, Otaki was Ross's address, there are several photos being sold by the seller that list that this address is on the back. I hope to God the famous Wings Archives are not being broken up and sold, but these may have been spare copies.
Isn't it amazing how people feel the need to raid and hack bits off historical finds. It's sickening.
So I guess this Hind is indeed one of the many with the Subritzky family now then. I wonder how their flying restortaion project is progressing.
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Post by Richard Wesley on May 7, 2008 23:34:13 GMT 12
The seller seems to have a large selection of photos for sale at the moment, I wonder where he picked them up. The following is a classic shot: www.trademe.co.nz/Antiques-collectables/Automotive-transport/Aviation/photos/a-153929319/p-66920536.htmThe Motat hind parts were boxed up and passed on to Don Subritzky in the early 1990's for restoration of a static example for future display in the museum. I remember cleaning and priming the gun mount ring (maybe the one in the first photo actually?) and helping pack parts into boxes. The idea I believe was that they could use the parts required for their airworthy example, and non serviceable parts could be used for completing the Motat airframe. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 8, 2008 0:46:12 GMT 12
I didn't know that one of the Hinds still belongs to Motat. It will be nice to see one in the museum someday. The one that used to be at Wigram was brilliant, I used to love looking at it. It's a pity it had to leave the RNZAF Museum and return to Don's collection in some ways. But maybe one day it will be flying which would be great, along with some of their other ones.
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Post by tbf25o4 on May 8, 2008 11:13:55 GMT 12
speaking of Ross Macpherson, last week his collection of photos was offered up for auction by his family and was sold to various bidders at an auction in Wellington.
One could say an unfortunate occurrence as many valuable pics that are excellent reference material have been lost to the common good
Paul
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 8, 2008 12:00:10 GMT 12
Oh dear. That confirms my suspision. That is where all these photos are coming from on TradeMe right now. I asked the seller and he said they came from one archive that had been someone's estate.
I really don't know if Ross would have wanted the famous Wings Collection broken up like this. Very sad.
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Post by skyhawkdon on May 8, 2008 13:01:43 GMT 12
That is really unfortunate. I got a brief look at the collection in 1995 when we started Alpha Four Kilo and it was a substantial and interesting collection. I would have thought it would have stayed with the NZ Wings/Pacific Wings business when it was sold by the family a couple of years ago? The collection as a whole should have gone to the likes of Te Papa, MOTAT or the RNZAF Museum rather than be broken up like this.  |
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Post by Richard Wesley on May 9, 2008 8:00:30 GMT 12
Very sad to have historical collections dispersed. I was thinking of buying the four Motat hind recovery photos as I have such a personal interest in the project, not sure how I feel about it now...?
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Post by FlyingKiwi on May 10, 2008 19:53:20 GMT 12
Well, think of it this way, someone is going to buy them, it might as well be you instead of someone who isn't going to look after them?
Leo P.
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Post by Richard Wesley on May 11, 2008 1:05:14 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 11, 2008 12:09:08 GMT 12
At least two of the Hind photos are of instructional airframes that were damaged in the Nelson storm in 1944. That will be why.
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Post by Richard Wesley on May 11, 2008 20:53:08 GMT 12
Ah, thanks Dave, that all makes sense.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 14, 2008 16:05:10 GMT 12
Alex Crawford's new book on the Hawker Hart family lists one of the Hinds that are currently with the Classic Aircraft Collection (Subritzkys) as having previously been with MOTAT. This is NZ1518. The write up states that it is there "for restoration, hopefully to flying condition."
Is that this one in the photos? NZ1518 was recovered from bush in 1971 it says, and had been burned out by an RNZAF recovery party during the war.
Is Alex mistaken that it is hoped to fly?
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Post by Richard Wesley on May 15, 2008 7:20:25 GMT 12
Yes, I am sure that NZ1518 is the crash in the photos, and it ended up at Motat for many years and is mainly the rough yellow primed fuselage standing upright at the Subritzkys (or was last time I was there), and the engine is on display at Motat. Don's first attempt at a hind restoration was on display at the RNZAF museum and is now at Dairy Flat also. The thrid hind they really went to town on and is smiply immaculate and the main one you see photos of. There has never been any suggestion I know of that the Motat Hind fly, I think the author must just have got mixed up on that one.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 15, 2008 10:18:00 GMT 12
Cheers Richard. I know they were planning to get at least two flying, one for owner James Slade and the other for themselves. However they now have bought back the one James Slade owned for a while. I wonder if the plan is still for two to fly?
I reckon the Hind/s project is one of the most exciting in NZ, I am really looking forward to seeing one flying, or even just complete.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 15, 2008 22:02:53 GMT 12
Denys Jones has kindly sent some photos from an expedition to see NZ1518 and asked me to place them up here, which I'm glad to do. Thanks Denys. He says: "I see the thread on the Hind at Otaki is still running so here are my
pix you might like to throw up.
I (left of engine) visited it Easter 1971 with Ross Macpherson, Mitch
Lovett (right of wreck in photo), and a uni mate Tim Dennis (rear of one
shot), all pix were taken by Ross I think.
Pic top left shows what you could (?) see coming up the slope. Look
closely and you'll make out the yellow of the wheel hub centre right and
the rear fuse frame hanging vertically left. The aircraft broke at the
rear of the gunner's position. The burning of the wreck by the RNZAF
didn't really do too much damage apart from destroy the fabric which was
their intention so that it would not glint in the sun and cause on-going
crash reports.
Pic bottom left shows the approach as you hook left of pic 1 so now you
see the rear frame right of shot. The other two show the fwd area
(mainly the Kestrel) notice especially the Scarff ring in both shots
(funny how it was so far up front).
Hope they are of interest."Sure is mate, thanks. here are the photos.  |
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Post by sputnik767 on May 18, 2008 7:39:23 GMT 12
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Post by Richard Wesley on May 21, 2008 3:55:27 GMT 12
Fantastic to see some colour photos of the wreck, thanks Denys (and Dave).
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