Recognition time - who are these pilots?

[Dave Homewood]

I was going to send this photo and a few others down to Paul harrison who kindly offered to try to recognise pilots etc for me. But then I thought what the hey, I'll put this one up here and see where we get.

It is a group shot of pilots who are in front of what looks like Vildebeest NZ105. I'm wondering if this is a late annual NZAF(T) camp, maybe just before that force was rearranged in 1937 to become the TAF? Note how old many of the pilots are and that many are decorated.

I was given this battered old photo by John Sinclair, who's father was Ron Sinclair, a distinguished NZ pilot from both WWI and WWII. I don't know any more than which one is Ron, and recognising a few other faces. Here's the broad overview to begin with:


And some closer looks of the pilots:

Front Row
I do not recognise the chap on the left but the one on the right is Ron Sinclair


These jokers look like real old brass, WWI and perhaps before then types. The guy on the right looks like, but may not be, J.L. Findlay who by WWII was a Group Captain but seems to be just a Sqn Ldr here.


No idea about this guy, he looks semi familiar but I can't pick him.


Second Row
I'm sure that I recognise these two men that form the second row. On the left is Ronald Cohen, who was known mostly as 'Nugget' Cohen in the RNZAF but also had the nickname of 'Iky' Cohen I believe. On the right is the most recognisable man of the prewar RNZAF due to his height, Frank Dix. Do you all agree on these two?


Third Row
I don't recognise anyone in this row. Now this is an interesting chap on the left, a New Zealand Army Pilot. How many of them were there in the 1930's?










Back Row





I have a feeling the chap on the far right might be Geoffrey Roberts, not certain though.

[shorty]

Could centre front be T.M.Wilkes?

[Peter Lewis]

I agree with Shorty - Wilkes.
If the photo is 1937, he would have been at the end of his service as Director of Air Services. May be the photo was just at the formation of the RNZAF. Given his seniority, he would have been centre stage.

"Gp Capt T. M. Wilkes, CBE, MC; Upper Hutt; born Thames, 24 Mar 1888; appointed 2 Lt, NZSC, Aug 1911; Brigade Major 2 NZ Inf Bde, 1 NZEF, 1916; seconded to RFC Sep 1917–Jun 1918; General Staff Officer, Air Services, and Secretary to Air Board, 1920–23; transferred from NZSC to NZPAF 1923; Staff Officer Air Services 1924–25; Director of Air Services 1925–31; NZLO Air Ministry 1929–31; reappointed DAS 1931; received additional appointment of Controller of Civil Aviation, 1933; relinquished appointment of DAS on formation of RNZAF in 1937, but remained CCA, and was also for some months Chief Staff Officer Equipment, RNZAF; NZLO Melbourne 1940–46; NZLO to the Netherland Forces in the East, 1944–46; retired 1946."

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks, yes that makes sense.

Wilkes, Findlay, Dix and Cohen were regular RNZAF and Roberts (if that is him) and Sinclair were Territorials. Interesting gathering.

[shorty]

My take on the front row is (L to R)
H.B.Burrell, R. Sinclair, T.M.Wilkes, J.L.Findlay,M.W Buckley

Comparison was from a photo in "Wingspead" facing P.172

[Dave Homewood]

Shorty, thanks, I just checked that photo and totally agree - we have the front and second row sorted now, cheers.

Note over the page from that in Wingspread, the middle photo showing 'Nugget' Cohen, Sid Wallingford, Len Isitt Buckley, Tony Lester and Cyril Kay, they're all wearing black armbands. I wonder if this was taken when they were together for a funeral, or if perhaps it was to mark the death of George V?

[shorty]

Yeah, I noted the arm bands too and wondered about the occasion.

[Dave Homewood]

Yesterday I was looking through a copy of The Weekly News from 9 June 1937 and saw a very similar photo to that mentoned in Wingspread, same six pilots with same black armbands. It was just a different pose taken on the same day, more bunched up. I suspect it was an older photo used for the piece though which was basically about RNZAF promotions.

I would think it probably relates to either a furneral (such as the 'state funeral' style funeral of Mac McGregor where most of the RNZAF's officers appear to have all been on the Guard of Honour), or perhaps dating back from the January 1936 death of King George V.

In the Weekly News issues from June 1937 there were many photos of the 12th of May 1937 coronation of George VI and it lead me to wonder if the photo was indeed from more recent times do the military have to wear the black armband in official mourning between the death of one King or Queen and the crowning of another?

[shorty]

Not necessarily a "state" type funeral, could just be a fellow officers funeral. When one of the SNCOs at Woodbourne died (of natural causes) we all went to his funeral and were issued with black armbands for the occasion.

[Dave Homewood]

I meant Mad Mac had a state type funeral because his coffin was laid on a gun carriage and paraded through the town of Palmerston North before he was buried, and hundreds, if not thousands turned out to farewell him. I have photos.

[shorty]

I knew what you meant but I was saying it could have been for just your normal bog standard type service funeral.

[Dave Homewood]

Oh, I get you now. Sorry. Yes the armband was and is used for any funerals. I think all six pilots then were Hobsonvile based and I wonder if Errol martyn's first volume of For Your Tomorrow reveals any Hobsonville funerals for 1936-37?

[shorty]

But it may have been someone who died of natural causes or a non air force accident.

[Dave Homewood]

Everyone who died in the service are in Errol's books, natural cases of otherwise.

[shorty]

OK, didn't know that.

[fwx]

OK, a bit late to the party, but front row right is not Maurice Buckley, it is Edward George "Ted" Olson.

However I have my own mystery man - probably August 1939, attached to the New Zealand Squadron at Marham, note ribbons:



Any ideas please??

Thanks very much, Chris