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Post by hairy on Sept 5, 2008 20:05:00 GMT 12
Here's a larger version of my Avatar. Stewart and White Ltd. (Leo White pre. WWII)
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 5, 2008 20:53:04 GMT 12
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Post by alanw on Sept 5, 2008 21:33:31 GMT 12
Cool Photo! Just a question, just how close is the aircaraft to that building I know it's probably some thing of an optical illusion and depth perception, but darn that looks like it's about to touch
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Post by lumpy on Sept 5, 2008 21:42:14 GMT 12
Yes , a great photo . Definitly a bit of an illusion though , its a fairly small plane , in front of a pretty large building ( and thus is much closer to the camera than the building is . Probably close enough all the same )
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Post by stu on Sept 5, 2008 21:50:29 GMT 12
Cool Photo! Just a question, just how close is the aircaraft to that building I know it's probably some thing of an optical illusion and depth perception, but darn that looks like it's about to touch Also probably due to the reasons outlined above and that the aircraft in question doesn't look to be moving at too great a rate of knots, but one would tend to think that at such a steep angle of bank, gravity is about to look up and say "I think I need to step back in here and assert a few laws of physics". Great photo and magnificent clubrooms
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 5, 2008 21:51:20 GMT 12
I saw a picture in an Auckland Weekly News of one of the AAC Moths "stunting" one Sunday afternoon in the late 1930's, I think it was at one of the Auckland racecourses from memory. There was an embankment and the plane was lower than the level of the top of the embankment and in a dive of around 50 degrees or more pointed towards the ground. It was not a lot higher than the altitude seen in the photo above.
I read the caption expectiing it to read that the plane crashed, but no, no disaster. The pilots were bloody good at low level aeros in those days, before people thought about regulations.
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Post by hairy on Sept 5, 2008 22:17:21 GMT 12
If you look to the left of the people on the ground you can see the Moths shadow. .....and remember, no photoshop back then.
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Post by hairy on Sept 5, 2008 22:23:32 GMT 12
They didn't always get it right at Mangere....................... ;D
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Post by sniff on Sept 5, 2008 22:25:10 GMT 12
There was an aviation name associated with the club. I thought it was Hayr, but he wasn't even on this planet until '35, by which time the Mangère Aeroclube was in full swing - nudge, nudge, say no more!
..... so, who was it?
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Post by sniff on Sept 5, 2008 22:29:58 GMT 12
Cool Photo! Just a question, just how close is the aircaraft to that building I know it's probably some thing of an optical illusion and depth perception, but darn that looks like it's about to touch Also probably due to the reasons outlined above and that the aircraft in question doesn't look to be moving at too great a rate of knots, but one would tend to think that at such a steep angle of bank, gravity is about to look up and say "I think I need to step back in here and assert a few laws of physics". Great photo and magnificent clubrooms The nose is pointing in the right direction, Stu, he will survive! ...but he might need a change of trou!
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Post by hairy on Sept 5, 2008 22:36:49 GMT 12
The pilots were bloody good at low level aeros in those days, before people thought about regulations. Imagine someone doing this nowadays, their licence would be torn up before they landed. "Crowd line? What crowd line?" RNZAC Pageant Mangere, 20-03-49
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 5, 2008 22:54:36 GMT 12
They will insist on parking their cars on the other side of the tape fence though!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 5, 2008 23:03:51 GMT 12
There's a photo in Matthew Wright's book "Wings Over New Zealand" showing the same DH60 Moth above, ZK-AAU, flying over the same building was "A Tiger Moth over the Auckland Aero Club's clubhouse at Mangere, in 1943." Oh dear, very poor research. His photo is from an angle more to the right from where Leo was standing in your shot, and the same people are stood there, and the Moth is a little further back in its low run. Maybe he went round twice and Leo repositioned.
I found another error in that book, pages 57 and 58 have a photo of Mac McGregor flying very low over an Auckland suburb in his Simmons Spartan ZK-ABZ, which Wright says is a DH-60 Moth. Hmm. He also fails to note in his caption that despite the fact they can't be more than 100 feet and they're over suburban houses!! that Scotty Fraser can be seen free-falling out of the aeroplane below. A fantastic shot, I think it comes from the Herald collection.
In another book on NZ's efforts in the Pacific War Mattew Wright wrote that the RNZAF took Vincents up to Guadalcanal!! I just had to email him about that one. He was wroing and admitted it. The media always goes one about how good and important his books are, and largely they are good, but he really needs to check his facts more I think.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 5, 2008 23:06:20 GMT 12
Oh dear. That looks like Dave Allen on the ale hauling at it, and the man to the right of him walking towards the plane looks like it's perhaps one of the Firth brothers, Ted or Tony. It's big enough to be one of those two gentle giants.
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Post by lumpy on Sept 6, 2008 0:16:00 GMT 12
;DI think these photos survive because they show exceptional events or skill . Hairy , we are very lucky ( sometimes ) to be in a country where regulations are only loosely applied . Your Avatar pic could easily have been Dave Philips in his Tiger display ( hes not usually much above that height ) , but my best memory remains the Corsair at Omaka ( if 200ft is the minium , Keith must have had the 190ft prop on that day ;D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 6, 2008 0:42:36 GMT 12
I thought these might be of interest, from Guy Mortimer "Tony" Firth's personal photo album, whose daughter Sally Coles allowed me to scan them recently. These are all copyright to Sally Coles. Any further details, especially names to faces, would be appreciated. This one's caption reads: "A Perfect Three-Point Landing - G.M.F. 1931" Anyone got more details? Left to right "Cop" Copley, Seville, Len Squires, Tom ??, unknown, Stenborge Unknown, Spence, E.B. Waters, Ted Firth, McGruer, Tony Firth, Ron Kirkup, J. Stevenson Hangar at Mangere in 1929 Auckland Aero Club Pageant 1929 Nan Monckton, Ted Firth, Trix Monckton and Tony Firth sitting on the terrace of the 'new' Auckland Aero Club clubrooms in 1929. An AAC outing, self-explanitory Ever wondered what the other side of the famous Mangere aeroclub building looked like? Tony Firth, Jean Batten, Nan Monckton, Ted Firth The winning team in the Thorne Trophy, 29th of August 1931. This seems to have been a formation flying competition, perhaps formation aerobatics. Does anyone know more? And the team members themselves, George Fisher, Ted Firth, E.B. Waters Mangere 1929 A Licence Tests: Len Squires, Sqn Ldr Len Isitt, Tony Firth, Tom Mac, Stenborge, Pheasant, Don Catanach
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Post by Bruce on Sept 6, 2008 8:42:29 GMT 12
The nearest two aircraft in the 1929 Air Pageant photo are interesting. The second aircraft is an Avro Avian which still wears a G-NZ registration (Always someone standing in front of the important letters!) The first aircraft is one I'm struggling to identify. It has a G rego and "Southern cross Airways" titles and appears to be a 2 seat side by side type. Looks like a Genet Major or Salmson engine. I thought Possibly a Robinson Redwing, but checking photos on the net the tail looks quite different. Any ideas?
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Post by fletcherfu24 on Sept 6, 2008 10:29:03 GMT 12
ZK-AAQ Blackburn Bluebird.South Cross Airways then Stan Blackmore et others.Another photo of it in 'Flying the Thermal Skies'. The rego list I have has only 2 Avians with the G-NZ.. regos. G-NZAV.....later ZK-AAC G-NZEE.....later ZK-AAF
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 6, 2008 10:59:19 GMT 12
Yes it's a Bluebird, there are a couple of other photos of it too in the collection, one action shot (blurred and all)
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Post by Peter Lewis on Sept 6, 2008 18:55:19 GMT 12
The one-and-only NZ Blackburn Bluebird III. Arrived in NZ early 1928 for Don S Cattanach, Auckland. He hired it to Southern Cross Airways Ltd., Auckland still using its UK registration G-AABB (as shown here). The ownership changed to H T Merritt & Mrs Hilda B Hewlett, Auckland 4th December 1928 and then to James E Tidd & R Kemp, Hamilton 18th November 1929. If the photograph is 1929 the aircraft would probably have then been under the Merritt/Hewlett ownership. Rego was changed to ZK-AAQ 12th March 1930, and after hitting a fence @ Te Aroha and a rebuild at Hobsonville, the aircraft was sold to Stanley J Blackmore, Hamilton 16th July 1930. The second aircraft (Avian) would I pick as G-NZEE of Goodwin-Chichester as the other one G-NZAV was a South Island aircraft. The next two Moths - ZK-AAD was owned by Air Survey & Transport Co.Ltd. (the DH agents) visiting from Hobsonville and ZK-AAK was an Auckland Aero Club machine.
The Moth crash, although it looks bad, seems to have involved a rebuild as there was no Auckland AC Moth written off in 1931.
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