Lets Rescue Our Citizens

[beagle]

Key: Air Force 757s not option for Bangkok
Updated 11:43AM Tuesday Dec 02, 2008
By Patrick Gower



Foreign tourists wait in a queue for a flight out of Thailand at the U-Tapao airport about 160 km south of Bangkok. Photo / AP
Protests at Bangkok airport
Stranded tourists fly out of Bangkok
Related NZHerald links:
Government considers contingency plan to get Kiwis out of Bangkok
Stranded in Thailand: 'Get us out of here'
A potential emergency evacuation of up to 300 New Zealanders trapped in Bangkok by anti-government protests could be hamstrung by the air force's two Boeing 757s both being out of action.

Prime Minister John Key yesterday said the Government was considering commercial charter flights or even military aircraft to get stranded New Zealanders out of Thailand.

But today he said if the Government chose to send military aircraft to evacuate New Zealanders in the event of violence they would have to rely on the air force's old and slow C-130 Hercules.

The two Hercules would have to fly to Bangkok in two legs, stopping to refuel in Darwin - potentially taking over a day to get there.

That was because the air force's newer, faster and more comfortable Boeing 757s were in the United States being upgraded.

"We have options through the Hercs, but not the 757s."

Asked if he was happy about that situation, Mr Key said he was having "broad discussions" with the Defence Force.


Labour leader Phil Goff said he would expect the Government to have a contingency plan.

"I am sure the Government is trying to do its best, but I was rather surprised to hear that there are no contingency plans," Mr Goff said.

"What would normally happen in a situation like this is that the prime minister would be on the phone to Kevin Rudd (Australia's prime minister) and we would be working closely with the Australians."

This had happened in trouble spots around Asia and the Pacific in the past.

"While the level of danger is not yet at a marked level you always have to prepare for the worst contingency."

Mr Goff said New Zealanders stuck in Thailand who wanted to return home would be asking why Australians were able to get out of the country and they could not.

He said there may be contingency plans but the Government should let people know what these were in case the violence spread.

Mr Key said the number of New Zealanders stuck in Bangkok was climbing and could now be above 300.

"It's anything from about 200 to potentially over 300."

Mr Key was set to attend the East Asia Summit in Chiang Mai in two weeks, but he said he now understood through officials it had been postponed.

The planned signing of New Zealand and Australia's free trade agreement with the Association of South East Asian Nations (Asean) at the summit would be postponed, he said.

Mr Key said the easiest and quickest way to get people out at present was still to work with established airlines.

Bangkok's main Suvarnabhumi International airport was occupied and shut down by anti-government protesters last Tuesday, and on Wednesday they also forced the closure of the smaller Don Muang domestic airport.

About 100,000 travellers have been unable to leave the country.

Mr Key yesterday said he was heartened by news the protesters were allowing domestic flights to leave Suvarnabhumi International and fly to the U-Tapao naval airbase about 150km east of the capital.

"That should give much greater capacity and gives us much greater heart that New Zealanders will be able to leave the country."

Mr Key said a flight left U-Tapao for Sydney with about 20 New Zealanders aboard, and he understood those flights were going to run on a daily basis.

Foreign Minister Murray McCully said yesterday talks were taking place with the Australian government about ways to rescue the stranded travellers.

"We're looking at working with anyone else in the same predicament," he said.

"Some progress is being made."

Explosions targeting the anti-government protesters injured at least 51 people, officials said.

Blasts hit the prime minister's compound in Bangkok, where the protesters have camped out since August, and a road near the occupied domestic airport.

Re-opening Suvarnabhumi airport would take at least a week from the end of the protest siege because of security and IT system checks, airport general manager Serirat Prasutanont said yesterday.


- NZPA

[beagle]

Has the first one ( B757 )gone back for more mods, (winglets ) or is it not performing coreectly, as I thought we had accepted the first one and it was doing very well, and the second one was due home about now.

[vgp]

they would have to rely on the air force's old and slow C-130 Hercules.

Last time a Poly made a comment like that the Aircraft got the chop.

[skyhawkdon]

We only have 3 Hercs available as 2 are in Canada getting upgraded. Of the 3 remaining one will probably be in maintenance and I would imagine the other 2 will be fully tasked. Are 40 Sqn doing Deep Freeze flights this season? They usually start about now.

Interesting that the first completed 757 isn't available... is this planned or a sign there are problems??

[beagle]

Listening to the radio this aftrnoon, it wa sback in the states , it might not be back at mobile with problems, it could be on tour, isn't Key touring around the world at the moment.
The second one is now due back late Jan, but other son here would be able to make more accurate statements regarding this.

as for the B757.
what will it be called when key is on board

[philip]

All sorts of things go wrong in this world. People with leaky homes, investments in finance companies, debilitating illnesses and any number of other personal disasters get no government help. Why then are tourists who chose to have their fun travelling to exotic locations have the god-given right to have the NZ taxpayer pick up after them when they are in no real danger?

And Phil Goffs comments are laughable. Yep, the Labour party legacy/way. Run our airforce down to the point where we have no capability defend nor rescue and then expect the Aussies to bail us out.

[corsair67]

Phillip, couldn't agree more. I get really annoyed every time something happens somewhere - and suddenly everyone expects the Govt to save their collective bottoms.

Go to one of the local pubs and drink like there's no tomorrow - the airport will open again eventually!

[Dave Homewood]

I actually posted a reply to this thread this afternoon, but then removed it as I thought it might be controversial. However on reading what Phillip and Craig have said I think at least a few people will agree with my thoughts - those tourists were warned by the Government that Thailand was a dangerous place. It has been on their high risk list for some time now and they didn't listen. So I think the Government has no obligation to risk sending a Hercules into a hostile zone to go and rescue a few bonehead sunbathers.

However it seems they are sending a Herc tonight, and I have full confidence that No. 40 Squadron will do the job they have been given well. Good luck to the crew.

[nzompilot]

I did find it interesting that on the TV3 coverage of this story they showed a ski equipt USAF LC-130 landing at Christchurch when talking about the RNZAF Hercules being sent!
But at least they're covering stories with an aviation theme - even if they get them wrong.

[Peter Lewis]

From personal experience Thailand is about as dangerous for a NZer to be in as Fiji.
Sure, there are internal political dissentions, but isn't that the case anywhere? Different societies act out these disagreements in different ways. Kiwis are actually quite well liked in Thailand, and the only way you'd get hurt would be by being unluckily in the wrong place when violence flares.
I do have some understanding of the Thai political system, and it is the King who is universally popular and who holds the country together.
There would seem to be two options for those caught in the unrest - either sit tight and wait it out, or take a train/bus/taxi to another port of call where you can find an operational airport.
The news reports about the plight of tourists so far seem to be a combination of a media beatup and politicians being desperate to be seen doing something.

[Dave Homewood]

I got the impression that John Key was trying to be sensible about it all till Goff opened his gob and started yammering so Key decided to send a Herc to score back points.

It's probbaly not necessary now because the Thai government has given in to the protesters and it's apparently all over.

[vgp]

Sounds more like Johno's more concerned with having a go at the RNZAF for having the Audacity to have both 757s oversea's in the US at the same time for maintenance/Upgrade etc.

Key frustrated over Air Force 757s being out of NZ
Wednesday, 03 December 2008

Prime Minister John Key intends finding out why the Air Force sent both its Boeing 757 passenger aircraft to the United States at the same time, forcing him to use a much slower Hercules for the rescue mission to Thailand.


"I do find it frustrating," Mr Key said today.

"Those 757s were an expensive purchase, they're there to give the Government the resources to assist New Zealanders and the Defence Force and frankly they've been found wanting."

One of the Boeings is undergoing an overhaul. The other has had its overhaul and was sent back to the US for deep maintenance.

Mr Key said if the second one needed deep maintenance there was a question over why that wasn't done when it had its overhaul, because it was back in New Zealand for only a short time.

He said the situation might be resolved when both of them came back, but he wanted assurances on that.

"Quite frankly we were left in a position where it would take 48 hours to have the Hercules in place to undertake flights into Thailand, and that's too long a period of time."

Air Force spokesman Squadron Leader Glenn Davis said yesterday the overhaul involved extensive work to make the aircraft suitable for its role.

Maintenance on the other was based on flight hours and had to be carried out.

Sqn Ldr Davis said the Hercules could be deployed "at a moment's notice" and the Air Force always had the ability to respond to an emergency.

"What we have seen is that we have always had C130s (Hercules) available so it's not as though we don't have any airlift capability to use," he said.

The Hercules are military transport aircraft but can be fitted with seats.

They are noisy and uncomfortable compared with passenger aircraft.

Sqn Ldr Davis said they could carry 90 passengers, although Mr Key has been using the figure of 65.

www.stuff.co.nz/4780908a11.html

[oldnavy]

Why did nobody suggest Air New Zealand as a passenger carrying alternative into one of the several other operating international airports in Thailand. Or did they? Can't imagine how the RNZAF got involved at all?

[Dave Homewood]

Perhaps if Mr Key wants to rectify the situation he could purchase some C-17's for the RNZAF.

In the emergency evacuation situation even 90 people aboard is a low figure. Hercules have been known to pack over 300 in when push has come to shove (not our ones I might add)

[baz62]

Dec 2, 2008 19:15:31 GMT 12 nzompilot said:

I did find it interesting that on the TV3 coverage of this story they showed a ski equipt USAF LC-130 landing at Christchurch when talking about the RNZAF Hercules being sent!
But at least they're covering stories with an aviation theme - even if they get them wrong.

Did you notice that the US Herc was landing on three engines? Way to inspire confidence ha ha. Typical media though, at least it was the right type!!

[30sqnatc]

"Quite frankly we were left in a position where it would take 48 hours to have the Hercules in place to undertake flights into Thailand, and that's too long a period of time."

Must pull out my memory bank and delete memory of flying Singapore - Alice Springs - Whenuapai with only 90 minutes on the ground in Aussie and two crews on board unless the old Hercs have go much, much, much slower ;D

Paul

[Dave Homewood]

Could it be more a lack of two crews available, due to critical manning?

[beagle]

Political row breaks out over evacuation of Kiwis in Thailand

The Air Force's 757s are out of action, leaving only a Hercules aircraft for a potential evacuation mission
Wed, 03 Dec 2008 6:47p.m.

With only an Air Force Hercules available for an evacuation mission, Prime Minister John Key is blaming the previous Labour government.
He says if Labour had got its act together, a bigger and more comfortable Air Force Boeing would have been available.
"If it had got its act together, we would have 757s that were operational instead of having both of them basically in service in the United States of America," Mr Key said on Sunrise this morning.
Any responsibility for the inability for the two 757's to fly comes back to rest on his doorstep," Mr McCully said.
National says it discovered the 757s were out of action on Sunday and is satisfied with its response since, despite criticisms.
But without the 757s, the only military option is the lumbering Hercules.

Ya have to laugh at these guys fighting over something that is obviousely out of their control and should be put behind them and get on with the task in hand.

MY REPLY
Some of us knew and senior politicians, esp defence on both National and Labour should have known that the Air Force is in the process of remodernising their fleet and part of that was upgrading both the C130 and b757 with both fleets have periods of time when they would be low in numbers of a/c.
I did not like the part where national abused Labour of running down the Air Force to nothing.
well honestly, apart from the strike wing debarcle, it has been them who have approved of the B727 replacement, C130 upgrade, P3 partial upgrade. Iro replacement etc

The other point is the the national carrier, Air New Zealand is owned by a decent chunk of the government, which really is owned by us. I am pretty sure i have read that ANZ has already a few aircraft laid up at mangare, maybe one of them could be used. I am pretty sure a B747-400 can take a few more people than a "lumbering Hercules" and take only a 1/4 of the time each way.

[30sqnatc]

This 'unavailability' is a brilliant move to gain the governments attention. Stage one of the campaign complete

Conspiracy Theorist

[beagle]

The campaign for what ??

The c130's are being upgraded, the 757's are almost ready.
Are you thinking about us getting new aircraft or something.