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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 17, 2005 22:27:18 GMT 12
Now apparently just this evening, according to John Campbell on the election coverage, another nut has threatened to fly a plane into the Sky Tower in Auckland. The plane has apparently crashed at Kohimarama.
This event clearly shows we need air defence aircraft in this country, and also that we have extremists on our streets.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 17, 2005 22:48:33 GMT 12
More from teletext:
"Plane crashes after buzzing city
A light plane that had been threatening to crash into Auckland's Sky Tower has crashed into the water off St Helier's Beach.
The plane, which earlier flew over the central city, had been stolen from Ardmoe Airport.
The police helicopter has been following the plane after the pilot made unspecified threats.
The crash was close to National Party leader Don Brash's house."
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 18, 2005 12:11:11 GMT 12
I have modified my original post and title, as there is no connection to terror attack at all with this incident.
It was sparked by a domestic dispute.
However, scary as it was, being unconnected in any way to the so-called War on Terror hasn't stopped Al Jazeera and NBC claiming the the plane was hijacked with an unknown number of people aboard! Other overseas newspapers are also splashing the words Terror Alert around too. What a great world we live in.
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Post by Bruce on Sept 18, 2005 18:00:28 GMT 12
Such a security risk too, 1600kgs or so of aircraft (about 100 litres gas if lucky) at 100kts against several thousand tonnes of solid reinforced concrete. (I get really tired of recreational aviation being termed a "security risk")  . Still it made a change from the election comments "Its too early to tell at this stage..." From my contacts at Ardmore the aircraft was a former Massey aviation Piper PA28-160 Warrior, ZK-MBQ. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 18, 2005 18:28:36 GMT 12
Yes, but Teletext indicates it was a Cherokee currently owned by Massey, so who do we believe? TV3 news showed it has the university's website on the cowl. He was a former instructor.
Also via Teletext the pilot was 33-year-old David Turnock. It says he's "one of NZ's most respected pilots". I have never heard of him personally. Any ideas?
I know what you're saying Bruce, but a plane flying through buildings is always a risk I'd think. I said to a mate earlier it's a good thing he didn't get caught on their bungy thing, he may have gone round in circles for hours.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 18, 2005 18:31:10 GMT 12
And the police spokesman pointed out there is noting to stop a 9/11 style attack because they have no means from the ground to bring down a plane. I seem to recall before 2001 we did have that means in this country.... aaaghh
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Post by Bruce on Sept 18, 2005 22:51:58 GMT 12
ZK-MBQ is still on Massey's books, but my mate says it hasnt been used much by them for a while - sort of a reserve machine. Turns out the Pilot last night was the hubby (ex) of the instructor who did my last biannual Flight review. Both are very well known instructors at Ardmore and had recently separated. Seems he wasn't taking it too well - I feel sorry for the guy to be honest.
If we still had a strike force, would it have been correct to use it in this situation? - I would hate to think what damage a loose sidewinder would do over a built up area. Besides by the time an A4 (or whatever) would get up from Ohakea, the Warrior would be nearly out of gas!.
At the time the Police Helicopter was airborne and, as sounds like happened, shepherded the aircraft away from the "intended" target. There was also the TV One helicopter providing rivetting live pictures of Alexandra Park raceway - perhaps they could have set Mark Sainsbury on the case (He managed to get Peter "Vanilla" Dunn pretty fired up) :-)
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 18, 2005 23:31:42 GMT 12
"If we still had a strike force, would it have been correct to use it in this situation? - I would hate to think what damage a loose sidewinder would do over a built up area"
Ah well, it's only JAFA's ;D
I'd think an F-16 would have been rather a good deterrent to get any plane away from the city if it shouldn't be there. It wouldn't have had to use sidewinders, its guns would rip a Cherokee apart.
A scramble would have had even an Ohakea-based Skyhawk over Auckland fairly quickly. This plane last night was up for over two hours before crashing, wasn't it? As soon as it was reported stolen on take-off, the Mangere radar contollers could have had the 'bogie' tracked and bring Skyhawks/F-16's to meet and greet the stolen aircraft before anything happened.
Another option is our gunship helicopters. Sure, the Iroquois have been shafted down to Ohakea, but where were the Navy?! Crikey, they live in central Auckland and cannot even defend it with their heavily armed Seasprites?
This sounds like a lot of supposition on my part, yes, but my point is this highlights the serious gap in our defence left by grounding the strike wing. It is not always going to be a "don't worry, it'll never happen anyway" situation that Labour would have people believe, simply because they think the strike wing is to protect us from other countries.
No! Thanks again to Labour, there is an increasing number of individual psychotics on the streets in this country as they don't lock them up or cure them anymore. There are also thousands of methamphetamine users now, and some of them must have pilot's licences. And also there more and more radical extremists with their own political agenda, both homegrown and those welcomed from abroad by Labour. Yes Helen, the Cold War is over, but Russia was never our only threat.
I think Auckland got off very lightly - the pilot could have easily been some complete psychopath who'd packed the aircraft with explosives and been really determined on blowing something up. And he may not have given the warning that last night's chap did.
I hope this pilot gets the proper attention he needs to fix his serious problems. It's a pity the RNZAF won't.
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Post by corsair67 on Sept 19, 2005 12:16:31 GMT 12
I this case I don't think it mattered whether you had a strike wing or not, because if the United States with all it's fighter resources can't stop madmen flying aircraft into large buildings, then what chance have countries like Australia or New Zealand got?
With that being said, I still think Comrade Helen is a fool for disbanding the Strike Wing, and maybe this incident will have her reconsidering her decision (but I won't hold my breath!) to have taken the Force out of the Air Force! Let's just hope a disgruntled Air NZ B737 pilot doesn't go looking for Comrade in the next few weeks in his 'company vehicle'.
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stephen
Leading Aircraftman
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Post by stephen on Sept 19, 2005 22:25:58 GMT 12
I agree ...in this particular case a strike wing would not have been able to respond in time...
however surely we could get some armed navy,police or airforce helicopter airborne under 40 minutes to respond to such an incident. If the americans overreact to incidents... in typical kiwi reaction we always under react....200 people were in sky tower on sat night and surely an inquiry should be initiated to see what we can learned from this...I understand the police chopper was airborne...were they prepared to shoot it down if on a collision course to sky tower...Prob they were armed only with pepper spay...who knows...??
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Post by corsair67 on Sept 20, 2005 14:50:53 GMT 12
Yes Stephen, I'd say there's a few red faces all around after this incident. I would hate to be put in the position of having to decide whether to shoot down a plane or not. Just imagine the collateral damage to a urban area you'd cause even by shooting something the size and weight of a Piper Cherokee out of the sky, let alone something bigger like a B737.
Maybe good old Kiwi ingenuity could come into play here; a modified and enlarged netgun for catching aircraft?
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. Still it made a change from the election comments "Its too early to tell at this stage..."
