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Post by barnstormer on May 30, 2009 7:33:10 GMT 12
Did any other RNZAF squadrons besides 488 fly Brewster Buffalos during the war? and where?
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Post by alanw on May 30, 2009 14:55:04 GMT 12
Did any other RNZAF squadrons besides 488 fly Brewster Buffalo's during the war? and where? Short Answer No Long answer To my knowledge 488 Squadron was the only RNZAF "Infiltration" Squadron to fly the RAF 339E Buffalo. Out of the RAF and Commonwealth Infiltration Squadrons based in Malaya/Singapore, 488 was purely "Kiwi owned and run" (that I am aware of) whilst other squadrons (including RAAF 21/453) had Kiwi's in their ranks, including Geoff Fiskin In the very last stages of the Battle for Singapore some 488 Squadron ground crew ended up with RAF 232 Squadron prior to evacuation to Sumatra (Dutch East Indies) For a short time in Sumatra, 488/232 Squadrons were effectively to become one, flying both Hurricanes/Buffalo's, until 488 was ordered home to New Zealand. The RAF had an order of 170 Brewster fighters placed in 1940. Three of those were sent direct to Britain for evaluation, the remainder were sent to South East Asia. Out of those 167 Buffalo's, only a mere handful made it out of Singapore/Malaya (Feb 1941), and of those that made it out, only a few were turned over to the NEIAF (Netherlands East Indies Air Force) before their capitulation to the Japanese. Hope that answers your query? Regards Alan
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 30, 2009 17:32:18 GMT 12
However No. 67 Squadron RAF was made up of mostly RNZAF pilots and they flew the Brewster Buffalo also in Singapore. Their groundcrew when the battle was on was made up mainly of No. 488 groundcrew, as 488's pilots were withdrawn. Among their pilots was Geoff Fisken, the top Pacific ace for the RNZAF.
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Post by alanw on May 30, 2009 22:00:42 GMT 12
However No. 67 Squadron RAF was made up of mostly RNZAF pilots and they flew the Brewster Buffalo also in Singapore. Their groundcrew when the battle was on was made up mainly of No. 488 groundcrew, as 488's pilots were withdrawn. Among their pilots was Geoff Fisken, the top Pacific ace for the RNZAF. Hi Dave, It's funny how 67/243 Squadrons both were made up primarily of Kiwi's (though they were in the truest sense RAF formed squadrons), One could say the Battle of Singapore (for the most part) was a truly Kiwi affair..... The Brewster Buffalo's though only served in that region. Funny how things turned out for Geoff Fisken also, from what I have read, he was originally supposed to fly Short Singapore's (the ones that went to Fiji) but ended up doing fighter pilot training instead and the rest they say is history!
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Post by barnstormer on May 31, 2009 3:32:39 GMT 12
Thanks, Lads; Very helpful. I am trying to sort out some Brewster Buffalo negatives. 488 Sqn was easy to reference-especially since they were marked "RNZAF." but I was curious about several with 67 Sqn and 243 Sqn in areas of Kallang and Mingaladon, and one of the 67 says "Magwe(?) evacuated fom Singapore and still in 243 Sqn codes.". That clears that up. You have confirmed that they DO have some NZ history/relationship. Still another one from 60 Sqn, Mingaladon of a Buffalo I. You have helped sort them out. From the Ashworth collection. I'm sure some have been published and some others are traded copy negs from other archives and collections. Still others marked as "from family." Once I sort them out, will try to scan some during the week, and post a couple.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 31, 2009 10:53:23 GMT 12
Wow, I for one would love to see them Barnstormer, thanks!
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A4k
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 85
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Post by A4k on Jun 3, 2009 17:49:19 GMT 12
Me too! That would be great Barnstormer!
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Post by vildebeest on Jul 4, 2009 9:35:45 GMT 12
Quick history of Buffalo units....
First to form were 243 and 67 in Singapore in early 1941, both with a large RNZAF presence. Next 21 RAAF converted, then 453 formed, predominantly RAAF, both in Singapore/Malaya.
In about October 1941, 67 was transferred to Burma, leaving its Buffalos behind to form 488. It then re-equipped with Buffalos in Burma.
So at the outbreak of was there were 4 units in Singapore/Malaya, 21 RAAF , 243, 453 and 488. A list of 243 pilots in December 1941 shows 15 out of 22 pilots to be RNZAF.
67 was by this time in Burma as I have said. Pilot list in December 1941 gives 20 out of 27 pilots to be RNZAF. All the fields mentioned in Barnstormers post were in Burma. 60 Sqn was also based in Burma. It was a Blenheim unit, but had used Buffalos when they arrived in Burma before 67 arrived and took them over.
To be painfully accurate, about 2 Buffalos also served with the RAF for a short time in Crete in 1941.
Look forward to seeing the photos
Paul
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Post by alanw on Jul 4, 2009 13:37:37 GMT 12
Quick history of Buffalo units.... In about October 1941, 67 was transferred to Burma, leaving its Buffalos behind to form 488. It then re-equipped with Buffalos in Burma. To be painfully accurate, about 2 Buffalos also served with the RAF for a short time in Crete in 1941. Paul 488 squadron had already formed in New Zealand in September 1941. Some of 488 Squadron arrived in October 1941 and the rest in November 1941. 488 squadron "inherited" 20 something dilapidated 339E's (Buffalo) from 67 Squadron, which they had to repair and make airworthy. This some what hindered their training, hence their non operational status when Japan attacked on December 8 1941. It's worth also mentioning that not all New Zealanders were RNZAF, as some were serving in the RAF (who had joined RAF prior to the out break of war) -yes I am aware that RNZAF personal were considered RAF. Prime example is Wing Commander WC Clouston, CO of 488 Squadron in Singapore, was a RAF Kiwi (Born in Auckland), fought with 19 Squadron RAF during Battle of Britain (would have joined the RAF around the same/near same time as Colin Gray/ Cobber Kane/ Alan Deere/Brian Carbury etc). The Buffalo's in Crete I believe were not part of the original RAF order (170 airframes) but were part of a Belgian order diverted to Great Britain after the fall of Europe and given to the Fleet Air Arm. 3 airframes of the original RAF order were shipped to Britain for trials (first 3 of production order) but, I don't believe they ever left the shores of Britain once they had arrived.
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Post by barnstormer on Jul 5, 2009 12:18:27 GMT 12
. All the fields mentioned in Barnstormers post were in Burma. Paul Thanks you Paul and Alan, for the clarifications. But I would not say "all the fields" were in Burma... as Kallang is in Singapore. I'm still working on getting the captions correct. I think I saw one or two of the Buffalo photos in Crete. not sure- will recheck.
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