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Post by phil on Jul 21, 2010 16:44:02 GMT 12
I'm picking we will see the Macchis back flying by Christmas (in NZ!), but interesting comments from the PM. Ah yes, but the question is... Christmas - What year? It's now a standing joke that the Macchis will be 'gone by Christmas'. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 21, 2010 20:58:39 GMT 12
I think they should sell the Macchis and use the money to buy more Spitfires for Ohakea. ;D
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Jul 27, 2010 15:00:49 GMT 12
Go old school again  but having said that we want the Macchis up and running again will they need an update or anything?? the Avionics and radio stacks and stuff are all good running for modern advanced training?? |
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Post by kiwirico on Aug 3, 2010 2:18:30 GMT 12
Well I was reading Flight International today and the article on NZ buying the Q300 or the CN335 was made to sound like it was a done deal............ so I am putting my money on the CN235. Yesterday I was also talking to someone in the NZDF.......... who shall remain nameless and they seemed very sure of more helos, so i guess if John Key likes them they also are in the bag. SO in a breakdown I am going to take a punt at what could be in the white paper see how close i am in a few months. 1) more A109's and have them armed with the possibilities of more NH90's later on if need be 8A109's and 10NH90's 2) light transport and medium range Marine Patrol Aircraft (CN235) x3 3) reduction of LAV force (army) 4) Replacement of the HMNZS Endeavor such as the MRV (navy) 5) basic/advanced trainer replacement with something along the lines of a PC-21 or Tucano for light attack role and pilot training. 6) an additional heavy transport aircraft (B757 or C-130) 7) High Readiness infantry company (army) 8) enhancement of combat capabilities in the army with advanced artillery and air defense 9) P3-K2's armed only time will tell anyone else care to share their predictions?? or comment. Hi Kwiscanfly (nice nick ;D ), is that list you published a official list or one that you think it might be? Thanks for reply Kiwiscanfly ..... P.s.. PC-21 or Super Tucano is 14Sqn colours.....  would be very nice!!! |
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Post by ceskazbrojovka on Aug 3, 2010 9:29:03 GMT 12
No surprises what my views on Defence capability are but here are the main points I made (in no particular order): 1. Function - the NZDF exists first and foremost to fight (to defend our rights and interests at home and abroad). We must have a small but strong offensive and defensive combat capability. "Peacekeeping", assistance to the UN and other Gov't agencies (eg disaster relief and fisheries patrol) are secondary functions that come from having a strong combat capability. The reverse isn't true. We can't rely on the UN or anyone else to defend us (others will do what is in their interests not ours). We must take responsibility for our own defence, in partnership with our traditional western allies and friends. 2. Funding - the crux of the matter. You can have all the reviews and wishy washy ideas that you like about capability and force structure but at the end of the day it comes down to money. Freedom isn't free - there is a price to pay in dollars and lives to maintain our freedom. We are not pulling our weight in this area. Our defence spending must be increased to match Australia's. Currently we only spend approx 0.7% of GDP on defence (I have deducted the capital charge from the 1% GDP figure used in most Gov't documents as it isn't real money or available for Defence to actually spend - it just gets paid back to the Gov't). Australia has committed to increase its spending to around 3%. Even if we spent 2% it would be more than double what we spend now and would make a huge difference. Whichever way you look at our funding (% of GDP, % of Gov't spending or, per capita) we spend less than just about everyone else in the world. However we generally get very good value for money on what we do spend - good "bang for our buck". 3. No more orphan platforms - buy "off the shelf" systems and have the same kit as Australia/our other western allies. As they upgrade their kit so must we. No more "fitted for but not with" platforms. Give the NZDF all the tools and infrastructure to support and operate the equipment they need for a full combat capability. 4. The future is unknown - the threat from China must be taken seriously and planned for. Within a few years their military capability will match the USA. They are spending more on building up their military than anyone else in the world. They are doing that for a reason. We should be concerned about their expansion in the South Pacific and SE Asia and doing something about it (as Australia is). Their large and growing submarine fleet could shut down all shipping in SE Asia and the Pacific faster than you could say boo! They are already influencing (economically) our weak Pacific neighbours. Other large over-populated, over-polluted, resource lacking countries like India, Pakistan and Indonesia should also be watched closely. 5. Restore the Air Combat Force. If you want bang for your buck, maximum flexibility, speed of delivery and exposing the minimum number of personnel to the actual risks of combat, then this is the capability to have. Approach the US for a similar lease deal on second hand F-16s/F-18s (I accept we can't afford brand new). Use the Macchis to start rebuilding the capability in the mean time. But the Macchis will also need replacing/a MLU in the short-medium term. Look at joint fighter pilot training options with other Air Forces like Australia and Singapore. Piggy back onto their aircraft purchases. 6. 2 more Frigates for the Navy. 7. Replace the Hercs immediately with 8 new J models. Cancel the upgrade (it is in deep sh*t and is a good example of another orphan system which we don't need any more of). 8. Purchase an additional 757 and upgrade the same as the other 2. 9. Purchase additional NH-90s and LUHs. 10. Purchase 6 medium tactical transport/Maritime patrol/multi-engine conversion training aircraft. 11. Our geographic isolation is our best physical defence, but also makes us vulnerable. We can't continue to use our physical isolation from the rest of the world as an excuse to "discount" our spending on defence. Technology and our reliance on it (and on overseas trade) actually makes the world a very small place. Cyber threats should not be discounted. China and Russia are already very active in this area. Imagine a world with no GPS, internet, email and cell phones. We have become too reliant on these technologies which could be shut down in a flash by someone with bad intentions. In relation to number two skyhawkdon, I have a few questions if you dont mind. You mention that defence spending should be raised to match that of Australia. 25.7 billion was allocated for defence for Australia this year. Thats rougly 32 billion in NZD. NZ defence budget is currently around 2 billion NZD. Surely, you cannot expect the Government to raise the spending by 30 billion a year? Is that what you meant when you said it should 'match' Australia in spending? If so, then thats about as unlikely as Australia matching the yanks in defence spending. Other than that, I think the rest was all good. |
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Post by skyhawkdon on Aug 3, 2010 10:12:19 GMT 12
No I meant matching Australia in terms of % of GDP, not actual dollars!
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Post by ceskazbrojovka on Aug 3, 2010 10:26:09 GMT 12
No I meant matching Australia in terms of % of GDP, not actual dollars! Oh, yes good. When I looked at that I wasn't too sure. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 3, 2010 10:34:00 GMT 12
Actual dollars would be nice though eh.  |
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Post by rumourman on Aug 3, 2010 12:17:07 GMT 12
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Aug 3, 2010 15:25:55 GMT 12
Well I was reading Flight International today and the article on NZ buying the Q300 or the CN335 was made to sound like it was a done deal............ so I am putting my money on the CN235. Yesterday I was also talking to someone in the NZDF.......... who shall remain nameless and they seemed very sure of more helos, so i guess if John Key likes them they also are in the bag. SO in a breakdown I am going to take a punt at what could be in the white paper see how close i am in a few months. 1) more A109's and have them armed with the possibilities of more NH90's later on if need be 8A109's and 10NH90's 2) light transport and medium range Marine Patrol Aircraft (CN235) x3 3) reduction of LAV force (army) 4) Replacement of the HMNZS Endeavor such as the MRV (navy) 5) basic/advanced trainer replacement with something along the lines of a PC-21 or Tucano for light attack role and pilot training. 6) an additional heavy transport aircraft (B757 or C-130) 7) High Readiness infantry company (army) 8) enhancement of combat capabilities in the army with advanced artillery and air defense 9) P3-K2's armed only time will tell anyone else care to share their predictions?? or comment. Hi Kwiscanfly (nice nick ;D ), is that list you published a official list or one that you think it might be? Thanks for reply Kiwiscanfly ..... P.s.. PC-21 or Super Tucano is 14Sqn colours..... would be very nice!!! HAHAH I wish it was the official list!!! at the moment its just my best educated guess at what is to come. and yea those super tucanos would look awesome in 14sqn colors but i think we could com up with something new!!! |
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Post by kiwirico on Aug 4, 2010 19:29:33 GMT 12
HAHAH I wish it was the official list!!! at the moment its just my best educated guess at what is to come. and yea those super tucanos would look awesome in 14sqn colors but i think we could com up with something new!!! Okay.... well, if you are 80% right.... then we are all happy. Still miss the point of returning the Macchis back in the air I truly belief they will Cheers, KiwiRico |
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Post by nige on Aug 4, 2010 23:24:31 GMT 12
Personally I'd prefer to see the Macchis back in 14Sqn colours - rather than PC-21 or Super Tucanos with no 14, thanks all the same! ;D
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Post by kiwirico on Aug 5, 2010 5:18:00 GMT 12
Personally I'd prefer to see the Macchis back in 14Sqn colours - rather than PC-21 or Super Tucanos with no 14, thanks all the same! ;D Oh for sure you're right.... better to see those Macchi's again in their 14 Sqn colours..... but hé.... better a PC-21 .... then nothing  Cheers all |
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Aug 6, 2010 16:01:44 GMT 12
For me i am finding that the Macchi's are a point of frustration as we are told by the government that they wont be used again and then we hear that they might.............. (please NZ Ministry of Defense make up your bloody minds, because if you have not done anything with them by the end of the defense white paper you will begin to look like Labour with the skyhawks, and i think i speak for most people in this forum when i say that that is not a good look!!) But then again my list would be just fine thanks Dr Mapp!!  |
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Post by skyhawkdon on Aug 6, 2010 18:44:04 GMT 12
Look out for an announcement on the Skyhawks over the next few days (could be over the weekend).
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Aug 6, 2010 20:29:19 GMT 12
thanks for the heads up.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 6, 2010 20:54:10 GMT 12
Have you bought them all Don? ;D
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Post by ceskazbrojovka on Aug 6, 2010 21:47:56 GMT 12
Doesn't anyone think the Skyhawks are a bit outdated?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 6, 2010 22:49:27 GMT 12
The Skyhawks were a bit outdated when I joined the RNZAF in 1989. But they're still cool. Much like Spitfires. :-)
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Post by shorty on Aug 6, 2010 23:18:01 GMT 12
Have you bought them all Don? ;D Just keep your eye on Trademe! |
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but having said that we want the Macchis up and running again will they need an update or anything?? the Avionics and radio stacks and stuff are all good running for modern advanced training??
would be very nice!!!
