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Post by Chris F on Sept 1, 2010 12:11:00 GMT 12
Getting back onto the White Paper...I understand the Government is wanting to align more interoperability with Australia. In saying this the RAAF are going to buy more C-130J Hercules.....suely we could tag onto that order aswell?  ?? Also they (RAAF) have the PC-9 as their main training aircraft from ab intro to advanced training plus used as a forward air controller...under Project Air 5428 they are considering options to replace this with the PC-21 in the 2012-2015 timeframe. Would a PC-21 be worth considering as a replacement for the outdated CT4/E...just considering from a stepping point to the new helicopters which are very high tech...if Australia dont need a primary trainer and can use the PC-9 in this role surely we could aswell. Lots of advantages here with a PC-21 been able to offer jet like performance to the Navy and Army as Air cover training. Love your comments on this................................... |
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Post by Chris F on Sept 1, 2010 12:37:41 GMT 12
From what I have heard the Australians no longer use the CT-4B.
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Post by Chris F on Sept 1, 2010 12:48:29 GMT 12
Ok they must then be in the process of deciding its future.
Interesting stuff.
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Post by corokid66 on Sept 1, 2010 13:46:59 GMT 12
Getting back onto the White Paper...I understand the Government is wanting to align more interoperability with Australia. In saying this the RAAF are going to buy more C-130J Hercules.....suely we could tag onto that order aswell? ?? Also they (RAAF) have the PC-9 as their main training aircraft from ab intro to advanced training plus used as a forward air controller...under Project Air 5428 they are considering options to replace this with the PC-21 in the 2012-2015 timeframe. Would a PC-21 be worth considering as a replacement for the outdated CT4/E...just considering from a stepping point to the new helicopters which are very high tech...if Australia dont need a primary trainer and can use the PC-9 in this role surely we could aswell. Lots of advantages here with a PC-21 been able to offer jet like performance to the Navy and Army as Air cover training. Love your comments on this................................... The PC-21 is a fine aircraft but it has one problem. A problem which would rule it out. Cost as each delivered airframe has been around the CHF20mil mark (That is over NZD25m). That is not far off T-50 money and way more than the alternatives. The best thing for pilot training in my humble opinion is probably to stick with our local guys at PAC and support Kiwi industry and do a Batch II upgrade and re-engining on the Macchi's which by all reports has transformed the aircraft. Again done locally at Safe and again supporting Kiwi industry. It would create and support local tech jobs, more likely to get public by-in, be far far cheaper than an imported PC-21 or even Tucano. ......... and of course allows us to get back into the fast air business over the rest of the decade before the RNZAF takes over 12 of the Shornet F's in 2023 from the RAAF ..... ;D |
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Sept 1, 2010 14:06:26 GMT 12
I think the Tucano is cheaper is it not???
This may be a bit off the current topic but the NZDF seems to be saving a lot of money at the moment have a look at this.
Defence Force shakes up Supplies contract
26 August 2010
The New Zealand Defence Force has replaced its single supplier of industrial consumables with six category specialists in order to deliver better value for money – potentially saving nearly $1 million per year.
Each year the Defence Force spends around $12 million on “industrial consumables” – everything from automotive bulbs to welding machines, crockery to shower mats, and hand cleaner to televisions.
Until recently, one vendor provided all of these items to the Defence Force under a single contract. However, last year the Defence Force put these items out to tender and instead of selecting just one vendor to supply such a diverse range of goods, it awarded contracts to six suppliers. Each three-year contract includes two one-year “right of renewal” options.
The new suppliers are:
J A Russell Ltd;
Noel Leeming Group;
Repco;
Southern Hospitality;
Trade Tools; and
Wesfarmer Industrial Safety (the parent company of Blackwoods Paykels).
Chief of Defence Force, Lieutenant General Jerry Mateparae, says that by splitting the contract the Defence Force is able to gain maximum value for its money. The Defence Force has already saved $210,000 this financial year across the new suppliers.
“Under this approach we have more specialised vendors who have excellent knowledge of their category and who are therefore able to deliver better value and better service,” Lt Gen Mateparae says.
He gave the example of batteries, where this year the Defence Force expects to save around $80,000 thanks to the new supplier contract. All up, the total savings on industrial consumables could add up to approximately $920,000 per year.
Lt Gen Mateparae says the contracts also contain a syndication clause that allows other government departments to sign onto the same Defence Force contract. Defence is currently in discussion with several other government agencies who may be interested in forming a purchasing syndicate involving one or more product categories.
“As with the recent rations procurement purchasing syndicate established between the Defence Force and the Department of Corrections, when sales volume increases, prices tend to decrease, so everyone saves money,” Lt Gen Mateparae.
They have also been saving money by selling housing and other stuff. What are they going to do with the money I wonder??? (article from the NZDF webpage, media releases)
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Post by sirbean on Sept 1, 2010 19:04:36 GMT 12
Great Savings and just think that money saved will be helping poor old Alan Hubbard.....thanks so much tax payer I hear him say....not!
I know a guy who worked in the late ninties for Ministry of Social Development,the then National Government made a whole lot of them redundant in a cost cutting of Government Departments and gave him a very nice handshake with a whole lot of cash.
Well this very clever man but that cash with his other laid off mates to very good use and set up their own company.
Two months later that very company where back on a contract to the Ministry of Social Development yes hired back by the same Government that made them redundant to fill a void in the service they lost....the differance was they came back on twice the amount of money doing the same job.....the bonus for these very clever guys was they also scooped work with ACC and CYF's.
Just goes not really show you how crazy our politicians really are!
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Post by corokid66 on Sept 1, 2010 19:57:59 GMT 12
Great Savings and just think that money saved will be helping poor old Alan Hubbard.....thanks so much tax payer I hear him say....not! I know a guy who worked in the late ninties for Ministry of Social Development,the then National Government made a whole lot of them redundant in a cost cutting of Government Departments and gave him a very nice handshake with a whole lot of cash. Well this very clever man but that cash with his other laid off mates to very good use and set up their own company. Two months later that very company where back on a contract to the Ministry of Social Development yes hired back by the same Government that made them redundant to fill a void in the service they lost....the differance was they came back on twice the amount of money doing the same job.....the bonus for these very clever guys was they also scooped work with ACC and CYF's. Just goes not really show you how crazy our politicians really are! The money is not for Mr Hubbard. It is for depositors under a guarantee scheme as a bulwark against the global financial downturn. As for the monologue about your mate, his job and the MSD it must be BS because the MSD did not exist during the National Govt of the 1990’s and secondly it has nothing to do with the topic thread or content of this website. There are websites like the standard and kiwiblog to talk about such political things. Not here. That is why it is a nice place to while away the free time. By all means Sirbean make a comment on the defence contracts above but please do not use this website to push your own personal agenda. You are entitled to say your own opinions on defence so lets keep it within that realm. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 1, 2010 20:43:04 GMT 12
Sirbean, you have the lowest karma rating ever seen on this forum by a mile, and your contributions to the forum have been very unpopular among the majority of forum users, and minimal in terms of worthwhile to discussion. Please consider what you post very carefully, because many here consider you a troll and a nuisance who's posts are little more than spam, and if the current nonsense continues the moderation team will consider terminating your account.
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Post by vs on Sept 1, 2010 22:09:37 GMT 12
I cant believe they keep going with C130's and P3's which are so old....I guess there is no replacement for the P3 until the P8 comes on line...Surely they would have been better to get C130J's than keep trying to upgrade such old airframes. Corrosion etc are going to be their big future issues.
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Post by yogi on Sept 1, 2010 22:53:19 GMT 12
And a karma point for Dave *click*  |
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Post by nige on Sept 1, 2010 23:08:04 GMT 12
"Dr Mapp has said the Hercules transport aircraft will need replacing by 2020, when they will be 55 years old, and the similarly ancient P3 Orion surveillance aircraft will be past their use-by date by 2025. Replacing the Hercules alone could cost $500 million to $1 billiion and Dr Mapp has said Orions need to be replaced with similar capability." www.nbr.co.nz/article/us-contractor-turns-nz-defence-white-paper-127218i.e. not Q300's as P-3 replacements! |
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Post by luke6745 on Sept 1, 2010 23:37:05 GMT 12
Boeing P-8 Poseidon as a replacement possibly?
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Post by corsair67 on Sept 1, 2010 23:46:34 GMT 12
Let's give sirbean some credit though for 'reinvigorating' a thread - he/she's certainly got a reaction out of some of you! ;D  He/she is a bit like one of those people who arrive at a party empty handed and proceed to drink everyone else's alcohol, argue with and/or grope some of the other guests, break your favorite piece of crockery, throw-up in the garden, and then pass out on the floor in a pool of their own urine. ;D Raptor, the ADF still put their new pilots through basic training at the BAe Systems Basic Flight Training School at Tamworth, on a fleet of new-build and ex-RNZAF CT-4B Airtrainers, like the one below:  |
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Post by ceskazbrojovka on Sept 1, 2010 23:51:37 GMT 12
Ok they must then be in the process of deciding its future. Interesting stuff. Your thinking about the interim replacement for fight screening and BFTS that is going on right now due to project air 5428 being delayed back to 2015-2017. The CT-4s will continue to operate as it looks like BAE (who are already running it) will win. |
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Post by corsair67 on Sept 1, 2010 23:57:17 GMT 12
By the way, I reckon by the time NZ comes around to finally replacing the P-3K Orions, the RQ-4N Broad Area Maritime Surveillance system will be well and truly tried and tested.
The ADF has got this kind of system included in future plans, to operate in conjunction with the P-8 Poseidon.
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Post by sirbean on Sept 2, 2010 8:34:35 GMT 12
:)corokid66 it was Ministry of Social welfare at the time now known as Ministry of Social Development....I used the current name so all would understand.
Dave I may be unpopular and thats because I dont beleive this country should have an ACF.That is my personal view only.
However I will say to all on here that every day I work and help people who need help in this country and taxpayers money is needed in far more urgent areas than Defence and 90% of taxpayers would agree.
The population is ageing and in the not so far away future we will have more people retired than we will have working and with people more active now and living longer we are in for some huge issues in healthcare.
This is fact and I am more than qualified to speak on such matters.
Like many on here my grandfather was involved in WWII and he always spoke of the war as shameful and never wanted to talk about it.
Next time you guys put on your poppies and go to your dawn parade holding your heads up and feeling for the veterans think about how we really treat them today................................
My 93 year old neighbour yes whos husband went to war for your freedom today and then came home and worked the land as hard working farmers and yes rised a family and paid their taxes....tripped in the gutter outside Woolworths Supermarket she has down her hip in and need one side hip replaced...beleif it or not this was not covered by ACC...too old and was more likely caused due to her age!
She had the hip done only to find after several months she was still not that mobile(this lady is super active and sharp as).
On further advice from the surgeon she was told that the other side needed to be replaced.....However she would go on awaiting list....and the surgeon said the way it worksat your age is it will never be done due to your age factor.However if you write a cheque for $21k I can do it in a month.
Is this gentlemen how you respect those who have given so much?
I have balls and stand up and help those in need and wasting taxpayer money on an ACF is just not my cuppa tea.
So before you go slamming my views I suggest you take a real hard look at what really goes on in your own back yard first!
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Post by Bruce on Sept 2, 2010 10:07:36 GMT 12
.....yawn.....  |
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Post by skyhawkdon on Sept 2, 2010 10:09:20 GMT 12
 Time to ban this guy Dave. He was warned.
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Post by sirbean on Sept 2, 2010 10:14:09 GMT 12
You dont seem to like people who differ from your views nor tell you some basic facts about what really goes on.....they are my views the problem is the vast majority of New Zealanders agree!
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Post by yak2 on Sept 2, 2010 10:19:47 GMT 12
Sirbean is like the guy who does not believe in insurance, loses his house in a fire, and expects the state/welfare to replace it. I respect his right of expressing an opinion which is there because earlier generations were proactive on defence. But if everyone adopts his shortsighted attitude, in future Granny may not have a backyard to worry about.
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??
Time to ban this guy Dave. He was warned.
