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Post by oldnavy on Mar 7, 2010 9:44:54 GMT 12
So that's it. The question is answered. Don't waste your money on pretending to have an air force when you clearly can't afford one. Here, in the thread on the Defence Review, you all agree there is no hope. Get contractors to do the transport and maritime recon. They will be roughly a third the cost of pretending to have a uniformed service. If you must, give all the helos to the Army, but HAWKEYE has hit the nail on the head with small UAVs performing the battlefield recon. I find it really disturbing that a once great nation with a history so intertwined with aviation, and the greatest fighter pilot tradition in the world, can be so calm about lying down and dying. Political will is about people, and I thought you were the people? Government do what the people say, and if what you say is the will of the people there is really nothing more to be said...  |
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Post by phil82 on Mar 7, 2010 9:51:46 GMT 12
there is really nothing more to be said... There really is a God after all......... |
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Post by 30sqnatc on Mar 7, 2010 10:32:02 GMT 12
There really is a God after all......... I hope so because our National Anthem tells us six times that she ;D is defending New Zelaand |
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Post by corsair67 on Mar 7, 2010 11:52:25 GMT 12
Yep, you know you're a Kiwi when you resign yourself to the fact that investing in defence equipment that can actually be used to defend NZ is seen as wasting tax dollars, yet sending idiots on overseas trips to work - whilst they actually spend their time on bus trips; selling government land at a bargin price back to certain groups so they can develop it to make themselves millions more than they paid for it; renaming half the countryside to pamper to a small number of people; paying a large number of people who don't want to work and contribute to society vast sums of money in special needs grants on top of benefits they already receive; and flushing millions of dollars down the toilet to try and work out who the foreshore/trees/mountains/oxygen belongs to are all perfectly acceptable uses of taxpayers dollars.........  But, at least the UN thinks New Zealand is wonderful! ;D Yes, the Orions certainly are front-line aircraft, but once you do discover a sub or a surface vessel, what can you hit it with, if the need arises? |
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Post by phil on Mar 7, 2010 12:31:56 GMT 12
there is really nothing more to be said... Lets hope. Your posts are a broken record, and while you certainly have a point, it gets tiresome reading the same thing paraphrased over and over again from you. |
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Post by phil82 on Mar 7, 2010 13:32:59 GMT 12
there is really nothing more to be said... Lets hope. Your posts are a broken record, and while you certainly have a point, it gets tiresome reading the same thing paraphrased over and over again from you. I thought I'd invoke a higher authority to achieve, very much tongue-in-cheek, what you have said Phil! ON, there is a danger when articulating opinion that it doesn't become a rail against whatever ails you, and sometimes I get the distinct impression mate that someone comes around and pisses in your cornflakes every morning! I personally don't accept for a nanosecond that we in these Shaky Isles are anywhere near as bad as you seem to think, and it must also be borne in mind that much of the comment here is from keenly air-minded folk but who are otherwise not that well-informed as to the machinations of the political/defence system. You have to work in it to experience that, and some of us become eternal sceptics but never lose our faith in that brilliant bunch of people on the world stage; your average Kiwi serviceman. I've also experienced the "power lunch" factor of Russell Offices in Canberra, and let me assure you, they are no better at it than anyone else. My military time spanned the early 1960s to early 1980s, and there has never been a time , in any air force, Navy or Army, when their cup runneth over with largesse from any political party, and Australia is no different...it's cock-ups are simply bigger than hours; ergo, submarines, ships of any kind, and helicopters just to mention a few! There is also one very much -debated but sometimes overlooked point in all of this, and that is there are aomething like 18-20 million of you Skippies paying taxes, and we have about a million. Given that fact, we pull our weight on the world stage... and we do it with good humour and a smile, always a smile! |
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Post by oldnavy on Mar 7, 2010 14:07:52 GMT 12
Keep smiling guys!
No doubt you are right, Phil82, and I always try to make the point that what goes on over there is really none of my business.
Personally, I am just pleased to have finally elicited a few responses which seem to indicate there is some fighting spirit left in the NZDF.
A particular sense of joy must come from Phil's comment though. Whilst I have tried on several occasions, and certainly believe I may hold a few unofficial ones, I have at last broken a record with my posts! ;D Excellent!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 7, 2010 14:20:20 GMT 12
;D
It's good to see delicate points are being made and accepted and people are still remaining civil and polite, and seemingly happy. Well done chaps. Now, back to the topic.
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Mar 7, 2010 14:56:12 GMT 12
ok then so back to the topic if the GOV does not want a fighter capibility but wants to look at have a wider range of capibilities with current platforms or SOME new ones what would we all be looking for? This is what i would look at.
1) 5 more A109's
2) 6 more NH90's
3) another B757 combi
4) arm the A109's and the Orions
5) replace the B200 advanced trainer or install a glass cockpit
6) UAV's for maring patrols and eye's in the sky (4 of them)
7) 2 C-295 light transport aircraft
these would be what i would do mainly beacuse by doing so would make the air force more flexable with numbers of aircraft available as well as getting more for less. Having a FRF (fast responce force would also be a good idea). all if this would not just allow us to expand what we can do but would prevent us being limited in our current operations as at the moment we do find ourselves a bit short somtimes and end up going right to our limits of what we can do and somtimes if situations had of been worse the RNZAF would not have been able to do anything as averything was already working over 100%. Just my theory of what is to come (limited new platforms but more of what we already have.)
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 7, 2010 15:13:56 GMT 12
I don't see that the government needs to spend megabucks on more A109's, why not buy a small fleet of Hughes 500's, even if they were second hand, to use for utility work and also adaptable for carrying weapons? When you see them in action, particularly in the hands of the master display pilot Phil Hooker, you realise what amazing aircraft they are.
I think No. 42 Squadron should be re-equipped with utility transports rather than just airliners. Something like the Andover could do so much more for the country than the Beechcrafts can.
Buy or lease a couple of second hand Hercules to bolster the fleet too, even if it's just in the interum till all the Hercules we currently own are back online after the upgrades.
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Post by caromeg on Mar 7, 2010 15:16:28 GMT 12
There's no money for that.
Try:
Work out what capabilities we can turn off and use the money elsewhere.
I think the Army Arty might be on the chopping block put into stasis - but not remove. - it would be better off in the reserves.
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Mar 7, 2010 15:28:12 GMT 12
I think No. 42 Squadron should be re-equipped with utility transports rather than just airliners. Something like the Andover could do so much more for the country than the Beechcrafts can. My comment about the C-295 have a look at them  I'm working on the exact principle as you mate more utility transports but I think the more C-130's would be overkill. (the C-295 is like the modern Andover i think) |
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Mar 7, 2010 15:29:55 GMT 12
There's no money for that. Try: Work out what capabilities we can turn off and use the money elsewhere. I think the Army Arty might be on the chopping block put into stasis - but not remove. - it would be better off in the reserves. I'm finding it hard to see any capabilities we can afford to ditch I don't think we are doing anything that we don't need or use... |
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Post by caromeg on Mar 7, 2010 16:48:56 GMT 12
| I'm finding it hard to see any capabilities we can afford to ditch I don't think we are doing anything that we don't need or use... |
I agree but next FY might make this happen |
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Mar 7, 2010 17:55:04 GMT 12
I agree but next FY might make this happen Next years FY??? sorry mate you lost me there |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 7, 2010 19:07:38 GMT 12
Financial Year?
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Post by beagle on Mar 7, 2010 20:38:27 GMT 12
mmmmmmm $150 million to build a new hangar to house the choppers. Seems a bit over the top. I would say that is the total budget for the improvements for Oh and WP such as new Airmovements, new MSS and new fences etc. Am I right or will the huge cost include officers toilets be going back to having a batman leaning under the door cleaning their shoes
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Post by skyhawkdon on Mar 8, 2010 6:54:46 GMT 12
That is dissapointing that it has been delayed 6 months. I don't see why it still can't be released. It is a blueprint for the future of the NZDF and things like combining HR systems and training surely are just an outcome of that review? The sooner it is out there the better.
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Post by 30sqnatc on Mar 8, 2010 17:10:51 GMT 12
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Post by corokid66 on Mar 8, 2010 20:46:46 GMT 12
That is dissapointing that it has been delayed 6 months. I don't see why it still can't be released. It is a blueprint for the future of the NZDF and things like combining HR systems and training surely are just an outcome of that review? The sooner it is out there the better. Maybe they are waiting for some news concerning what our Singaporean friends may be up to? ;D |
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I'm working on the exact principle as you mate more utility transports but I think the more C-130's would be overkill. (the C-295 is like the modern Andover i think)
