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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 22, 2009 21:41:46 GMT 12
Whilst searching through old issues of The Auckland Star newspaper I spotted this article. It seems somewhat misleading, implying, as I read it anyway, that the RNZAF was about to get Hawker Hurricanes, and the RAAF too.  By the way, the Hurricanes from No. 73 Squadron that set that speed record mentioned in the caption were flown by at least one kiwi, Dereck "Bill" Kain. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 22, 2009 21:42:33 GMT 12
By the way, which African nation/s got Hurricanes before the war too? Was it Egypt? Or were these deliveries to RAF units in Africa?
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Post by shorty on Jul 22, 2009 21:56:32 GMT 12
Well we sort of got Hurricanes, in that the dummy decoy aircraft used around airfields here were to represent hudsons and Hurricanes. I've seen photos of the wooden Hudsons but not the Hurricanes.
Mind you I can't see one of our dummies breaking any speed records!
It doesn't actually say we were going to get Hurricanes, it just says the "latest types of machines" by which they may mean Oxfords and the Wellingtons we had ordered
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Post by sopwitht1 on Jul 22, 2009 22:17:12 GMT 12
Neat! Hurris instead of Kittyhawks?
That was 73 Sqn's CO Sqn Ldr John "Downwind" Gillan who flew the Hurri from Turnhouse to Northolt - it was a record at the time, assisted, no doubt by the prevailing winds as per the Sqn Ldr's nickname!
That's the Hurri prototype too, note the struts under the tailplane.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 22, 2009 22:30:36 GMT 12
I have seen one of the Hurricane replicas in the background of a photo of RNZAF Station Nelson. The RNZAF also had dummy Kittyhawks.
Looking at the details, the trip that Bill Kain was involved in was to try to break the record from Edinburgh to London in November 1938. He flew his section on the 7th to RAF Donnibristle, Edinburgh, but they had to wait a few days for some trees to be chopped down so they could get off the airfield again! This was because it had rained heavily and the airfield was boggy so they decided to fell the trees to give them a longer take off run. They flew back to Digby on the 10th and I guess they either decided not to attempt for the record or if they did, didn't beat it. Hey ho.
I just realised I chopped off the last line of the article, which read:
"from strength to strength."
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Post by sopwitht1 on Jul 22, 2009 23:59:58 GMT 12
Any photos around of the Kiwi dummy aircraft? Can you post them if you have some?
Neat story - it would have been pretty impressive had he actually beat the Edi-Lon record from Donni'B since it's about fifty miles north of Edinburgh across the Forth Estuary in Fife!
I can imagine the erks out there cursing and swearing as they cut down the trees and dragged them away from the runway in the mud! - They wouldn't get the officers to do it!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 23, 2009 8:02:45 GMT 12
But the Erk's were cheerful chaps in those pre-war days, weren't they?  Perhaps they didn't intend Donnibristle to be the starting point, it may have had a better Mess or something so was a good place to head up to before the event. There are numerous photos around of the wooden dummy aircraft, and in the series of books called Tiger Country about RNZAF Station Harewood there's a whole section on building them from memory - but you will have to order the books through your library on interloan as only 53 copies of each volume were published and most are in libraries. |
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Post by Marcus on Jul 23, 2009 21:55:29 GMT 12
By the way, which African nation/s got Hurricanes before the war too? Was it Egypt? Or were these deliveries to RAF units in Africa? Hi Dave The first MkI Hurricanes were delivered to the SAAF in February 1939, arriving by ship at Durban from the UK. These were old ex-RAF machines. These Hurricanes were of the fabric wing variety and still had the Watts two blade propeller. They were apparently not in the best condition, and stories exist of the ground crew having to remove several birds nests in order to get the “new aircraft” airworthy. When war was declared in 1939 the SAAF had six of these fighters on strength, of which two crashed (one fatally) in exercises in the first few days following South Africa’s entry into the war. Regards Marcus |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 23, 2009 22:53:21 GMT 12
Thanks Marcus. Interesting stuff.
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Post by sopwitht1 on Jul 24, 2009 22:02:09 GMT 12
Hey thanks for the info about the dummy aircraft pictures, Dave; I've been reliably informed that the RNZAF Museum has a few pics - a few were posted by them in an old issue of the RNZAF magazine Air Force News once.
Hee hee - birds nests - I heard a story about when the first Baffins arrived here they were filled with sand - and the odd (dead) scorpion!
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Post by shamus on Jul 24, 2009 22:16:32 GMT 12
Hi sopwith1. It was actually the Gordons that had the scorpions in them as they came from the
middle east. I have been battleing the rumour for years that the Hinds arrived from the middle east
with scorpions in them, but the Hinds didn't come from there and neither did the Baffins.
But still a great story.
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Post by sopwitht1 on Jul 24, 2009 23:22:42 GMT 12
Hey, thanks for correcting me on that, Shamus - well, looks like you've got your work cut out for you as long as lunk heads like me keep repeating it! Fairey Gordons, of Course!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 25, 2009 11:00:55 GMT 12
Don't forget that the Andovers also alledgedly arrived with sand, straw and camel poo in some of them!
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Post by phil82 on Jul 25, 2009 16:40:08 GMT 12
Don't forget that the Andovers also alledgedly arrived with sand, straw and camel poo in some of them! I can't verify that, but I can confirm a brush I had with the blanket-counters over the issue of a spare engine for the Andovers! I was, very briefly, at Te Rapa when I came back from Singapore. Although not a member of the Supply Branch, I was in a sort o0f 'holding pattern' before returning to Wellington, and had some responsibility handed to me for the dispatch and return of 'rotables', that is various bits of aircraft refurbished by the original manufacturer. One fine day, [although this is a Supply story it should perhaps begin with "Once upon a time", a Army low-loader arrived with a spare engine for an Andover on board, in a container, fresh off the boat. Now I happened to know that one of the 42 Sqn Andovers at Ohakea was "AOG" ,that's a suppliers term for and "aircraft on the ground awaiting essential spares", in this case a replacement engine, which was sitting in front of me on the said Army low-loader. Now being a practical sort of chap, I asked the Army, who were returning to Linton Camp and therefore driving right past Ohakea, if they could deliver said engine there? "Not a problem Sir" they said. Problem solved I thought, so I went to present the tale to the senior blanket counter who promptly vetoed the idea. "We can't issue that engine until it has been brought on charge", he cried, thus confirming my long-held view that Stores really are Stores, and to issue anything was anathema to their code. Still being ever so practical, I suggested it could be brought on charge, then issued to Ohakea at the same time, and meanwhile the engine would be en-route to Ohakea. But he was having none of that. So the aircraft remained on the ground for another week, I kid you not. |
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Post by camtech on Jul 29, 2009 11:20:15 GMT 12
Some of the Andovers did still have sand in crevices when they arrived, but straw and camel poo - not to my knowledge. Even when in the UK training on the Andovers, we were warned about sand in the fuselage lower areas.
I can relate to the suppliers not wanting to let you have anything - they even used to change the numbers on some items, mainly to confuse us, but also because they could. I spent a few days at Te Rapa looking for bits and pieces shortly after the Andover stores arrived, and found all sorts of miscellaneous stuff, including bits that still had wartime aircraft names on them. I found a tailplane of a Tiger Moth at one stage, and pointed it out to the stores bashers, but never found out what happened to it!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 29, 2009 12:37:51 GMT 12
Thanks for confirming the sand Les, and for poo-poo-ing the poo. I certinly did wonder when i was told that way back in the day, what would camels be doing in the Andovers, I wondered. but it came from a reputable, I thought, No. 42 Squadron member source. Funny how these stories get embellished.
I definately recall the hay all through everything in the Wigram-based Iroquois fleet after the big snow of 1992. Some of it was turning up months later.
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Post by flyinkiwi on Jul 29, 2009 13:04:40 GMT 12
Dave, do you think the article was intended to spread disinformation about Englands air defenses? It reads to me like the Brits were saying, "we've got so many aircraft we are shipping them off to all points of the globe!"
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Post by phil82 on Jul 29, 2009 13:06:12 GMT 12
Some of the Andovers did still have sand in crevices when they arrived, but straw and camel poo - not to my knowledge. Even when in the UK training on the Andovers, we were warned about sand in the fuselage lower areas. I can relate to the suppliers not wanting to let you have anything - they even used to change the numbers on some items, mainly to confuse us, but also because they could. I spent a few days at Te Rapa looking for bits and pieces shortly after the Andover stores arrived, and found all sorts of miscellaneous stuff, including bits that still had wartime aircraft names on them. I found a tailplane of a Tiger Moth at one stage, and pointed it out to the stores bashers, but never found out what happened to it! Believe it or not, but in 1976 Te Rapa still held some parts for the Catalina and Sunderland! I recall a Dining-out for a Canberra guy, possibly Mick Murray, and in his farewell rambling on the highlights of his career he had to rate the highest of going to the Flying Clothing Store one day , "and it was actually open". At Ohakea, the opening hours of the clothing store were designed to oppose any time you were available to go there! I was once told I couldn't have a pair of shoes, "because they are the only pair we have in that size, and if we issue them we'll have no stock". Un-bloody-believable! As a non-grocer-type person, I can recall the deathly silence in the Mess at Te Rapa one night when I said I couldn't understand why Te Rapa existed, and wouldn't it be better for all the spares holdings to be distributed to the respective bases? All A4 bits to Ohakea, all Lockheed bits to Whenuapai etc. That was far too logical for a grocer to grasp, although it did happen some years later! |
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Post by shorty on Jul 29, 2009 15:08:06 GMT 12
I keep hearing these stories about long forgotten parts at Te Rapa, well I was a Te Rapa Techo (Airframes) from Feb 74 to March 76 (taking over from Smoky Dawson and with Steve Bailey as our SNCO).
With ,literally, years of experience at ferreting out old aircraft parts I thought it would be an Alladins Cave of old parts. This was not so, the only part I found while doing my surveys that didn't relate to an in service aircraft was a Auster wheel hub. I could find nothing else and ,believe me, I searched every site (as the grocers called the big sheds) from top to bottom. As a result, I think a lot of the stories circulating are urban myths put about by people who never went there..
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 29, 2009 15:16:11 GMT 12
I have certainly heard the "You can't have our last item or we'll have to order more" story from more than one airman in my time in the RNZAF.
I used to think that in the recruitment phase when you do that multitude of logic tests, if you fail them they make you a Supplier. It was often very frustrating getting parts off their shelves onto your equiment, due to paperwork and other nonsense.
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