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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 30, 2009 1:53:36 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 30, 2009 11:41:07 GMT 12
One last detail of the FB5  Here are some shots of the two seat Vampire cockpit, which I think is a T55. This is the one that they allow kids to clamber in and out of and play with, so maybe a few bits are missing, but I think the photos show some interesting details for the modeller all the same.   Behind the Seats  The panel  What the right hand seat pilot sees  What the left hand seat pilot sees  And the top of the dashboard through the windscreen.  I hope these have been of interest to someone. |
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Post by FlyNavy on Jul 30, 2009 12:18:17 GMT 12
Dave, You are a gentleman and a scholar (old pusser's [Navy] saying of a person of good renown). What a terrific look at such a clean Vampire! Marvellous. Many thanks for your trouble, especially for the very good clear detailed trainer cockpit instrument photos (the full HORROR for all to see). ;D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 30, 2009 12:27:29 GMT 12
No problem Phil. I'm glad you liked them. I realised when looking at the trainer just how little visibility there seems to be, it's all panel!! Yet some of the guys who flew in aerobatic teams with the Vampires in the RNZAF told me the two seaters were much preferred to fly in because they flew better than the singles.
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Post by FlyNavy on Jul 30, 2009 12:34:48 GMT 12
Dave, it has been awhile since I have sat in a Vampire but as I recall the view was not so bad, but then again one adjusts quickly to whatever view there is available. For sure flying on the port side in formation flying from the port seat was a chore. I recall not liking that at all and having to lean forward, down and up to look past any passenger that might have been in the starboard seat. Usually if I could I would get them to put their head in their lap so I could see. I guess this did not happen so often because mostly there were only 2 serviceable (at any one time) Vampires flying in the RAN by 1969. The preferred position would be to fly on the starboard wing of leader for comfort of No.2. Don't know about single seater Vampires. My preference would have been for anything WITH an ejection seat. Did the RNZAF single seaters get ejection seats eventually? Without the ejection seats being fitted to the Trainer on show one gets the impression of a roomy cockpit. However with seats installed and two aircrew that place was all elbows and helmet banging. One learnt to mind one's Ps & Qs in a Vampire Trainer with an instructor in the RH seat. Otherwise he would reach behind the seat to menace one with the crowbar for emergency escape use. ;D Or alternatively he would just bang your cardboard helmet - HARD - with his clenched fist - because he could.  |
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Post by phil82 on Jul 30, 2009 12:53:25 GMT 12
I had a ride in a Vampire T11 piloted by the late Barry Reid, and can confirm the seating arrangement was 'intimate!' The RNZAF single-seaters never had an ejection seat. FlyNavy, you might want to get hold of a copy of this book: www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/bookreviews/5237235/Phoenix-Squadron-by-Rowland-White-review.htmlI'm reading it and it is very revealing! The USN Top Gun programme for example has never acknowledged that the programme for its fighter pilots was written by RN instructors, and in fact some RN pilots were the first they had! |
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Post by camtech on Jul 30, 2009 12:54:03 GMT 12
RNZAF single seaters were not intended to get ejection seats, as stated by the then Minister of Defence in August 1957, but all two seaters were. However, as we know, the T 55's never did get them. The reason the single seaters were not to be so fitted was " that the solo Vampires are viceless and easy to fly, and do not exhibit the unstable characteristics in a dive which influenced the RAAF to fit its version of this aircraft with ejector seats. The RAAF has since cured the instability problem." Further, from the same article, "RNZAF aircrews .. feel any slight safety advantage which may be gained by the fitting of ejection seats is offset by the added difficulty of flying the aircraft in the reduced cockpit space available."
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Post by camtech on Jul 30, 2009 12:59:19 GMT 12
I know the single seaters were sods to work on, especially anything in the cockpit. As an Instrument basher, it was easier to pull the blind flying panel out to do most jobs in that area, than to slide in upside down to try to do any work.
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Post by FlyNavy on Jul 30, 2009 13:19:49 GMT 12
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Post by phil82 on Jul 30, 2009 13:46:07 GMT 12
RNZAF single seaters were not intended to get ejection seats, as stated by the then Minister of Defence in August 1957, but all two seaters were. However, as we know, the T 55's never did get them. The reason the single seaters were not to be so fitted was " that the solo Vampires are viceless and easy to fly, and do not exhibit the unstable characteristics in a dive which influenced the RAAF to fit its version of this aircraft with ejector seats. The RAAF has since cured the instability problem." Further, from the same article, "RNZAF aircrews .. feel any slight safety advantage which may be gained by the fitting of ejection seats is offset by the added difficulty of flying the aircraft in the reduced cockpit space available." There was a well-documented take-off accident at Ohakea involving a Vampire which failed to get airborne heading toward the 27 end, and went through the fence, across a paddock, through another fence, then finally hit a tree which spun the aircraft around and the pilot in his accident report said;"at which point I lost control of the aircraft". Yeah, right!  |
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Post by FlyNavy on Jul 30, 2009 14:21:08 GMT 12
From my poor memory for details now I think the RAAF/RAN Trainer Vampires had a 100-200 feet / 90 KIAS minimum altitude/speed lower limit for the M/B Mk.3B seat (with 'bowyang' leg restraint cords). We were always low after T/O to get some ZOOM speed for a turnback attempt (on crossing runway) with a dead engine or eject if first look was not ideal. Vampire Trainer with Seats (Sweden): (always a dog's breakfast!) ;D  |
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Post by FlyNavy on Jul 30, 2009 14:49:17 GMT 12
Good Martin-Baker Ejection Seat Videos here: www.martin-baker.co.uk/Sub-Navigation/Multimedia/Video.aspxSome great Vampire Reference Material here also: www.gbairspares.co.uk/reference.htmFound this website today which has at first glance just ordinary Vampire information. However some of the links enable free downloads (after sometimes a long waiting period) of some valuable Vampire material. Have just downloaded a 153Mb PDF about the 'AirFrame'. At first quick glance it looks incredibly detailed.: www.filefactory.com/file/36e04a/n/T11_Section_3_Airframe_pdf (153Mb) Once this monster was downloaded any others will take thousands of seconds waiting time before free download can start. I'll wait. Have found that waiting time will vary according to the size of the following download, so it can be as short as one minute. If you want detail about detail for the Vampire T.11 - used in the RAN FAA - this is the place. ALSO there is Venom FB.4 info but I've not looked at it. |
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Post by phil82 on Jul 30, 2009 16:19:25 GMT 12
It was "90 knots-200'-Straight and Level", according to the sticker!
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Post by FlyNavy on Jul 30, 2009 16:27:32 GMT 12
Phil82, OK thanks I'll make a note of that in my PDF now (my own reference).
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