Air Force Marae Project

[guest]

Aug 8, 2011 21:01:37 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Another thing i have realised whilst writing this post is the motto of No. 5 Squadron is neither English, Latin nor Maori. I can only assume it must be Fijian??

Keitou Kalawaca Na Wasaliwa - We Span the Ocean

Fijian

[Dave Homewood]

I thought it must be. Cheers.

[Dave Homewood]

Sergeant John Aperebnma Tirikatene, son of the then MP for Southern Maori, was an RNZAF fighter pilot. He was killed, crashing into the ground after a collision in formation over Papakura.

[obiwan27]

Perhaps a slightly tenuous link to the RNZAF, but certainly with a Maori connection was this fellow;

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Barnard_Rhodes-Moorhouse

Also interesting to see he was a VC recipient and his son flew with 601 Sqn RAF during the Battle of Britain.

[Dave Homewood]

He was the first ever air force VC recipient, and the RNZAF Museum used to have a section dedicated to him back in the old layout.

[skyhawkdon]

Hey great debate/discussion guys, I'm actually seeing things from a different perspective having read others thoughts here and having a think about how Maori culture has been a part of my RNZAF culture (perhaps without me having realised at the time), so worth having the debate/discussion eh.

I agree that it is better that the old Museum buildings have found a new use back on base. Better than being cut up for firewood!

Yes Ohakea has a Base Institute Dave (above the Sgts Mess) and a Sports Bar (the old Cpls Club).

I'm the first to admit I use the 75 Sqn Maori Motto often and with great pride (I've even signed off quite a few books with it!). Same for the 2 Sqn motto (much more war'y than the 75 Sqn one! - translated it means "We Swoop To Kill" - very un PC!).

I also remember being very moved back in 2001 when Muzza Neilson's body was returned to Ohakea from Nowra and the base Maori Cultural Party gave a very moving welcome home. Same for the disbandment parade in December 2001 - they made the hair stand up on the back on my neck - so much emotion in their performance!

And good point about the base chapel's. They are definitely funded from the public purse and not that well utilised, but they and the Padre's provide a vital function IMHO.

So I guess each to their own. Maybe I'm just a bit old fashioned and grumpy these days... but learning more about the "new" RNZAF all the time

[corsair67]

While I don't really have an opinion either way about the possible merits or possible lack of merits of establishing an RNZAF Marae (or any other religious facilities on bases for that matter), I do however (oh, no, here he goes!) think that the timing of this is all rather unfortunate in the current political climate of 'slash and burn' that seems to be taking place in the NZDF.

The following paragraph from the "RNZAF Bicultural Policy" caught my eye:

Operational Effectiveness

4.276 Our most important resource is our people. We have seen on operations that the Mäori component of the RNZAF provides us with a unique ability to engage with different cultures and is a vital part of what makes us an effective force. The Mäori population in New Zealand is increasing, and we need to actively compete for this
human resource in the employment market if we are to survive. By making the effort to truly acknowledge and understand our bicultural heritage we will be better able to recruit and retain our personnel of the future.

You really have to laugh at the first line of that particular paragraph - "Our most important resource is our people" - which is just another example of how meaningless these words are when they are not being backed up by actions.

For example, how many of the personnel who have recently seen their Air Force jobs disappear or being civilianised recently would actually think the RNZAF really do believe that people are their most important resource?

Maori culture has always been extremely important to all branches of the services in NZ, and it will continue to be so, for so long as the NZDF survives.

I just wonder if New Zealand's future Chinese masters will be so accommodating?

[nige]

Phew, I'm glad this thread is starting to "pull-up" so to speak, for a while things were sliding around a bit uncomfortably.

In fact, I was going to inject some humour to get people to concentrate on the "real enemy" rather than fight amongst ourselves! What the heck, may as well, here's a list of countries by military expenditure & NZ sits nice and comfortably amongst a whole host of third-world, emerging and banana republics! Whilst we argue here over Marae's we should be arguing with our politicans, who conveniently enjoy first-world status and funding themselves but our military budget means our first-world NZDF military & people is funded on a near third-world footing!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_federations_by_military_expenditures

As for the marae, navy and army have had them for years, as pointed out. As the Army used to say (might have been Jerry Mateparae himself or a former CA), they embody the best of the tradition of the British Army and the best of Maori warrior-fighting culture, thus no harm in having a marae to bring the two worlds together (usually for ceremonial occassions)!

In fact nowadays in this PC environment, thank goodness for Maori respect of their warrior culture. Eg as one small example, it was good to see Willy Apiata's community (young and old) welcome him home with his VC a few years ago. Now imagine if that was a "pakeha fella", his welcome at his local community hall would have been interjected by white liberal guilt protestors waving plackards! Sigh!

So go RNZAF Marae & RNZAF warrior culture! Take that you white liberal guilt protestors, don't fxxk with the RNZAF - you might get a taiaha spear up your arxx!

But seriously, I'm intrigued that the RNZAF marae will be in Bulls and not on base. I guess that's putting the RNZAF at the fore front of the community. That can't be a bad thing!

(Psssst, after reading the recent thread on drinkies at the Bulls bridge and no doubt a-plenty the local watering holes, maybe some accomodation could be found on the marae plot, for inebriated airmen and airwomen sleep off the effects before returning to base & face the glare of the base commander! Think of the marae as "added value" ... and a place for a slap-up feed to soak up the effects! Ooops this is very un-pc of me to suggest this - smack, smack) ;D

[Dave Homewood]

Don, you and I have gone through the same wave of thinking I reckon. I am still adamant that Air Force culture itself needs better preservation and promotion along with the Maori culture. Where is the promised Air Force Visitor's Centre, Manawatu's lying politicians??

As for RNZAF chapels, I only ever went into one, once, the Ohakea Chapel, on the recommendation that it had really cool stain glass windows. It does! Photos appear on my website form that visit. I agree that whilst I had no interest in or use for the chapels, the Padres were really important and worthwhile people in the service and I have a lot of respect for them. Especially Sqn Ldr Puller who was at Woodbourne when I was there in 1989, his weekly mandatory classes at GSTS I thought would be a real fagg, but it turned out he was really great, helping with all sorts of advice and problem solving for us all to help us adapt to service life. Great chap. Another good guy was Padre Sqn Ldr Ross Horton who came to Cambridge to do the ceremony for the Air Force plaque I got installed when we launched the website.

Nige, your mention of Willie Apiata's return home reminded me that he came from Te Kaha. That tiny village and rural community produced not only him but also another VC recipient, Moana-Nui-a-Kiwa Ngarimu. Respect!

[Dave Homewood]

More Maori language in RNZAF folklore we take for granted perhaps are names of stations and bases, such as:

Whenuapai (The Good Earth) - actually named by white peace activist Theophilius Wake
Ohakea
Onerahi
Kaitaia
Mangaroa
Rukuhia
Wereroa
Waipapakauri
Tauranga
Waiouru
Paraparaumu
Rongotai
Omaka
Taieri

and many more...

[steve]

I rather appreciate the Maori Battalion song that embraces the words ......For God ,King and Country and the New Zealand Coat of Arms that has always shown the Maori warrior and the flag bearing white women (modelled on Princess Grace Kelly) with the crown uniting both groups of emigrants. All of our ancesters Maori or Pakeha came from off shore and therefore no citizen groups should have special rights over other communities base on which "tribe" has been here the longest. Like religion you are no less of a countryman if you choose not to follow certain customs as long as you don't show disrespect that causes harm.

[14liney]

Quote 'All of our ancesters Maori or Pakeha came from off shore"

My uncle 404073 Sgt James Milton Hall RNZAF....English name, Maori background. Killed in action may 31, 1942 on raid on Clogne.

[Chris F]

I was always under the understanding that a visitors centre was going to be built at Ohakea after the new 3sqn hangar.
Is this no longer a goer?
It seems a real shame as I often with the family spent alot of time at Ohakea Musuem and enjoyed a cuppa and watching the aircraft.The kids loved going outside looking at the Strikemaster and Skyhawk and playing on the navy gun.
It was a great place and I am all for a new one.
To be fair Ohakea should have been the first place in NZ to receive a Skyhawk and with a visitors centre would make a good local attraction.
Must just be a money thing!
I am all for a marae as it makes good use of the ex-musuem and maori culture makes up part of who we are as kiwis.

[nige]

I thought too the new museum/visitors centre was coming afterwards - can't find any articles on-line to confirm or deny that, but there must be people in the know here etc.

[Dave Homewood]

Perhaps it is still to come but it has gone very quiet, and even people I know at Ohakea have said they think it has gone suspiciously quiet.

Perhaps all the councillors who promised it were voted out at the last election? Or maybe their ratepayers don't think it's a viable investment considering the last museum failed to make any money??

[nige]

Could the Value For Money review (included museums) have delayed things?

[Dave Homewood]

Maybe the Waiouru Museum will move there when it closes?

[flyjoe180]

Waiouru Army Museum closing?

[Dave Homewood]

Waiouru is to practically close down as a result of the recent Defence White Paper, apparently. They're already moving units out now to Trentham and elsewhere and most will end up at Ohakea in the future. They'll still use the tussock land for training, but the expenditure on all new buildings at Ohakea and Trantham for the Army, and the amount that will be spent on travelling to and from the desert to do exercises is obviously outweighed by the fact that they won't convince the all new civilian army to move to Waiouru, so it's closing down.

The Museum won't stay there if the base is gone. Like the late Ohakea Museum, no-one ever stops there any more. It's in the wrong place entirely. People can now drive the desert road without having to stop for a break because since it was built the speed limit was raised and the cars have become much more comfortable on the long haul. They need to move it into a city to survive in my opinion. Christchurch or Wellington.

[luke6745]

Aug 11, 2011 23:08:47 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

The Museum won't stay there if the base is gone. Like the late Ohakea Museum, no-one ever stops there any more. It's in the wrong place entirely. People can now drive the desert road without having to stop for a break because since it was built the speed limit was raised and the cars have become much more comfortable on the long haul. They need to move it into a city to survive in my opinion. Christchurch or Wellington.

When I was there on Sunday there was a large amount of visitors there. The Cafe and Gift Shop were busy and the was a fair amount of people in the museum itself.

It really does need to be bigger though.

Us ATC boys had fun putting on the full dress uniforms and running around with the fake guns in the kid area haha. ;D