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Post by McFly on Aug 5, 2011 19:25:55 GMT 12
These photos show the first stages of the new Air Force Marae project brought into effect by the RNZAF Bicultural Policy. Background - 1. The RNZAF Bicultural Policy was brought into effect in December 2003 to guide the RNZAF towards achieving a bicultural partnership that represents and respects both the RNZAF and Māori cultural interests. It reflects the RNZAF’s commitment to the Treaty of Waitangi and the importance of Maori culture to all New Zealanders, including the RNZAF. It also recognises the role and benefits of a bicultural Air Force with regard to RNZAF’s operational effectiveness and organisational pride. Principal among the six key objectives of the RNZAF Bicultural Policy is ‘to establish an RNZAF marae’.
2. Although the Māori culture has become firmly entrenched into RNZAF culture it lacks a focal point of Māoridom that adequately reflects its importance to the RNZAF. In 2008 a residential Senior Air Noho Marae took place at Parewahawaha marae Bulls, at which the need for an RNZAF marae was reaffirmed. A preliminary marae scoping team was put together in 2009 to identify at which base a marae would provide maximum benefit to both the RNZAF and Māoridom. Ohakea, Auckland and Woodbourne were all considered and Ohakea was identified as the preferable option after all considerations were taken into account.
3. It was also noted by the scoping team that the vacant Ohakea Museum building were scheduled for demolition. Relocating the building as the genesis of a marae complex was considered to be a viable possibility. The shape and dimensions of the building are ideal and it has a long and deep history with the area having once been the local school building prior to becoming the Ohakea museum. Relocation as the nucleus of a marae would also mean large cost savings to the RNZAF.
4. As well as providing a focal point for Māoridom, an RNZAF marae would also be a ‘turangawaewae’, (a ‘place to stand’) for all RNZAF personnel in the most fitting form and location intensely unique to New Zealand - the marae, specifically the RNZAF marae. (All RNZAF Official)
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Post by motoxjase on Aug 5, 2011 20:55:29 GMT 12
Now I thought the Military is trying to save money???
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Post by phil on Aug 5, 2011 20:57:39 GMT 12
Good to see all the money we are saving to spend on the 'teeth' arms isn't going to waste.
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Post by beagle on Aug 5, 2011 21:07:43 GMT 12
I have some Irish in me, do you think i could borrow some airfield land and grow some spuds.
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Post by Bruce on Aug 5, 2011 21:43:18 GMT 12
Actually, I dont see any problem with having a Marae on an Air force base, In fact I'm surprised they dont have one already. (The Army have had one at Waiouru for a number of years) A Marae is a community focal point and would be valuable to a far broader group than just Maoris - we have a Marae on our University and its an extremely useful and appropriate venue for formal gatherings. If you have ever been to a Powhiri, and had someone explain the significance of the ceremony and the Marae itself, you realise that this isnt just tokenism towards Maori, its a very inclusive, warm and welcoming place.
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Post by shorty on Aug 5, 2011 21:56:03 GMT 12
I suppose the sound of a Haka will scare fishing boats and asylum seekers more than the sound of 20 mm shells hitting the sea in front of them.
Makes me glad I left when it was still an Air Force
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Post by phil on Aug 5, 2011 22:19:53 GMT 12
I'm sure it's a warm and welcoming place.
I wish my hangar was a warm place.
I wish my friends hadn't just been civilianised to save money, that would make me feel much warmer.
I wish I was on an OE16 deployment to the coast of Somalia hunting pirates instead of back in freezing NZ, that would be nice and warm too, but it cost too much so I'm not.
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Post by corsairarm on Aug 5, 2011 22:45:11 GMT 12
Actually, I dont see any problem with having a Marae on an Air force base, In fact I'm surprised they dont have one already. (The Army have had one at Waiouru for a number of years) A Marae is a community focal point and would be valuable to a far broader group than just Maoris - we have a Marae on our University and its an extremely useful and appropriate venue for formal gatherings. If you have ever been to a Powhiri, and had someone explain the significance of the ceremony and the Marae itself, you realise that this isnt just tokenism towards Maori, its a very inclusive, warm and welcoming place. Tuis anyone
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 5, 2011 22:48:47 GMT 12
I guess I don't really have an issue that a fairly small minority culture within the RNZAF is catered for on the base.
But it is a kick in the guts to see it is a bi-product of the demise of the Ohakea Museum - a place that was the focal point of Air Force culture that meant something to every member of the RNZAF past and present, Pakeha, Maori or otherwise. What happened to those once vocal politicians from places like Palmerston North, Fielding, Bulls, and other surrounding districts who all vowed they would buy these museum buildings, relocate them nearby onto council land and create an Air Force visitors centre and museum of their own?? Where are they now? What happened to the much-promised repository for RNZAF history, culture, recruting and fine cafe dining? They were full of wind the lot of them, and obviously just chasing votes.
The Air Force has a new cultural focal point for Maori, but the Air Force cultural focal point is gone from Ohakea. I doubt a marae will replace it. After all, it will be merely a base institute with some carvings.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 5, 2011 23:10:37 GMT 12
I guess the marae will get a lot more use when Linton and Waiouru are closed in the near future and the Army takes over Ohakea. Is this project to relocate and refurbish the buildings being funded by Base Welfare - like every other minority hobby establishment created on a base such as the woodwork workshops, car clubs, sports teams, etc? Or by outside community groups? is the base commanders house being done up again? Or as implied by a few people here is money genuinely being diverted from the operational budget of frontline flying and personnel to fund this? It also recognises the role and benefits of a bicultural Air Force with regard to RNZAF’s operational effectiveness and organisational pride. What does this mean? How does Maori culture have a role in operational effectiveness or organisation of the RNZAF? What, I shudder to ask, are the other five?
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Post by Bruce on Aug 6, 2011 8:41:52 GMT 12
Whilst not wanting to be persecuted for going against the group opinion, this needs to be put into perspective.
Firstly its not about things being taken off the operational budget to fund the Marae - the Air Force IS getting new equipment - perhaps not as much or as flash as people want, but they are. Billions are being spent on the base redevelopment, for operational reasons. The Marae project looks fairly inexpensive, using recycled buildings etc. It would be funded out of a completely different pot of money to the operational stuff - thats how these things work. Ohakea is going to grow into quite a large community - not just RNZAF and Army personnel, but their families and yes, (although I dont like it either) Civilian contractors. Several of those who have posted on this thread have previously complained about the miserable existence for those living at Ohakea. The place is not just a "Base" its actually the "Home" of those who live there. Part of what makes up a community, and what you would expect to find in most small towns would be the social infrastructure: parks, sports facilities, schools, churches, childcare facilities, swimming pools, playgrounds, Marae and yes, Museums (I agree also that the Ohakea Museum has been completely shafted!). Every other New Zealander has these social infrastructure requirements, and most have access to them, why should Military personnel and their families have to go without? I'm sure Ohakea will gain most of the things above (if it doesn't have them already) as the population grows. Building the Marae is just part of the whole infrastructure development.
I think what is turning people off this idea is the terrible "PC speak" of the RNZAF Bicultural Policy. I dont think that it does justice to RNZAF culture or even Maori Culture as its sort of "we have to do this so here you are". I CHOSE to learn Maori, and in doing so learnt about the culture and values as well. As I was in the right mindset I found it a great experience. You cannot force the culture on to those who don't want to know about it, (and its quite aparent that many dont ), and thats OK. Unfortunately many people get their understanding of Maori Culture from the way Hone behaves!. the fact is that there are some to whom a Marae would be as important in thier lives as a Chapel, Rugby grounds, Gym or Bar, all of which are provided on site already.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 6, 2011 10:37:29 GMT 12
Whilst not wanting to be persecuted for going against the group opinion I don't thimk you are going to be persecuted for your opinion Bruce, everyone is entitled to an opinion in a debate. The major concern at the moment is people - those things that make up an Air Force - people, are being made redundant due to budget cuts. Not all of them are being offered their old role back on a lower civilian wage. The NZDF is cutting back the very thing that makes them what they are. So it is natural that we should be curious as to where the budget is coming from to fund a non-necessary extra curricula project like his, in the hope it has not come at the expense of people's jobs. I for one would be quite happy if I found it was paid for by Base Welfare Fund, or the Maori Culture Group themselves through raffles and galas, or an outside source like Dept of Maori Affairs. But I would not be happy if it came from the Air Force's budget and was therefore funnelling money away from much more important resources. After all no-one would like it if it was a sports team bar being built from operational funds, or any other hobby or recreational facility from operational funding, and I don't think a marae has the right to have funds from the operational money pool. Some here have alluded to the fact it is coming from there and I want it clearly stated by anyone in the know just exactly where the funds have come from. Of course, but the money in that pot has to have come from somewhere. Where? parks = got that sports facilities = got loads schools = Bulls and Sanson etc right outside the gate churches = got that childcare facilities = again Bulls and Sanson swimming pools = Ohakea has an excellent indoor pool playgrounds = again yep Marae = soon and yes, Museums = nup They don't go without. Bases are well catered to with all-inclusive social infrastructure facilities and have been since WWII. The Base Welfare Fund provided for most of them - things as mentioned before like car club garage facilities, woodworking shops with all the gear available to the hobby woordworker, swimming clubs, tennis courts, football pitches, gymnasiam, bars and social clubs, base institutes for larger functions from dances to funerals to base meetings, canteens, cafes, chapels for all denominations, hash house harrier clubs, yacht clubs, base gliding clubs, base parachuting clubs, shooting clubs, base aero club, golf clubs, rec libraries and much much more. When I was in I had a full and active life without actually using many of the provided facilities but it was always good to know they were there. Woodbourne even has/had a radio control model car racing track when I was there in 1989. So you are right, they are not just ioperational bases, they are homes and communities, and not just where an airman or airwoman lives but in many cases also their spouse who may be a civvie unrealted to the service, and their children often grow up there on the base and are able to use the facilities. i have often thought what a sweet existence of bliss it must have been for the Air Force brats growing up in the perfect community - everything they want at their fingertips and an airshow every day! So I see your point entirely that a marae is just another step in providing the community facility to reflect the rest of society. I have no issue with that at all. I am simply curious as to whether the funds really did come from operational budget as some have alluded to. That, in my opinion, would be dead wrong. As listed above they do have most of these things. You're right there, it smacks of the previous Labour Government's social engineering policies to turn everyone into subserviant drones who have to not only tolerate everthing else but unwillingly embrace it, because Labour knew best. Yes, fine. I choose not to learn it or have anything to do with it if possible because it is not in any way connected to my culture, heritage, lifestyle or wellbeing. Just as when I had all those excellent RNZAF facilities open to me on base I also chose not to use most of them because I didn't need to. All of them were used by a minority, a handful of wood lathe turners, or car tinkerers, or meat bombers. The church goers were definately in the minority in the RNZAF. I did choose to use the canteen, cafe, gym, museum, and a few other facilities when the mood took me. I can see that the marae will be used by a minority group - I cannot see it being embraced by the entire community as you seem to think Bruce - but those who use it will find it important in their lives, and that is fine.
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Post by steve on Aug 6, 2011 13:32:01 GMT 12
Muslim needs should be catered for as well with a prayer room and some modfication of the traditional uniform. Why stop at two cultures. In for a penny in for a pound. Hindi policemen in the NZ Police wear their Indian head dress. Is that the case with the RNZAF? You do wonder where this nonsense will stop if ever.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 6, 2011 14:12:35 GMT 12
Steve, yes. I spotted an RNZAF member in Wellington a few years back wearing an Air Force blue turban with standard cap badge on the front. it looked very smart actually.
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Post by lumpy on Aug 6, 2011 17:55:29 GMT 12
Yes, fine. I choose not to learn it or have anything to do with it if possible because it is not in any way connected to my culture, heritage, lifestyle or wellbeing. . Dont you live in NewZealand Dave? Normally I'd totally agree with your sentiments about pandering to minority groups , but to be perfectly honest , so long as the facility is in demand and well utilised ,then I dont have a problem with it . Like it or or not , we live in a multi cultural society .
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Post by phil on Aug 6, 2011 20:11:31 GMT 12
We don't live in a multi-cultural society, we live in a bi-cultural society - maori and everything else.
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Post by motoxjase on Aug 6, 2011 21:03:42 GMT 12
Muslim needs should be catered for as well with a prayer room and some modfication of the traditional uniform. Why stop at two cultures. In for a penny in for a pound. Hindi policemen in the NZ Police wear their Indian head dress. Is that the case with the RNZAF? You do wonder where this nonsense will stop if ever. WW2 vets would turn in their graves if that ever happened in the RNZAF!
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Post by Bruce on Aug 6, 2011 21:31:13 GMT 12
Muslim needs should be catered for as well with a prayer room and some modfication of the traditional uniform. Why stop at two cultures. In for a penny in for a pound. Hindi policemen in the NZ Police wear their Indian head dress. Is that the case with the RNZAF? You do wonder where this nonsense will stop if ever. WW2 vets would turn in their graves if that ever happened in the RNZAF! Other than those who served alongside the Hindi Indian troops at El Alamein and the Moroccan Goumiers at Cassino....
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Post by jonesy on Aug 6, 2011 21:40:47 GMT 12
Seems to me that theres quite a few here that belong to the most discriminated-against group in NZ:White, middle aged, heterosexual,able-bodied, employed, taxpaying, good-grasp-of-english-language,males! All joking aside, we're on a slippery slope with this thread folks....soon to turn into some of the ranting that is seen elsewhere. Thought we were a bit better than that??
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Post by skyhawkdon on Aug 7, 2011 16:34:22 GMT 12
I don't have a problem with a Marae at Ohakea (or anywhere else), so long as it isn't funded from the public purse. It should be no different to any other "club" or welfare facility on base - paid for through the Base (or RNZAF in this case) Welfare fund and lots of fundraising - just like the Ohakea Engineering Club had to when we wanted a new hoist bay and welding shed - we worked our butts off fundrasing for years and build the shed ourselves. As one who did a lot of fundraising to establish and maintain the Ohakea Museum I am saddened to see our old buildings being used for this. I hope the RNZAF Marae project has paid for those buildings as they didn't "own" them to start with!
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