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Post by Peter Lewis on May 2, 2012 22:36:45 GMT 12
So sorting out which A4s go where, I have:
NZ6201 - to Classic Flyers Museum, Tauranga, 2012
NZ6202 - to Wanaka Transport Museum 2012
NZ6203 - (crashed)
NZ6204 - to Ashburton Aviation Museum 2011
NZ6205 - to RNZAF Museum Wigram 2012
NZ6206 - to MoTAT October 2011
NZ6207 - the real one - (crashed)
'NZ6207' - the fake one - RNZAF Museum, Ohakea 1988
NZ6208 - (crashed)
NZ6209 - to NZ Warbirds, Ardmore, 2012
NZ6210 - (crashed)
NZ6211 - (crashed)
NZ6212 - ?
NZ6213 - Australia?
NZ6214 - ?
NZ6215 - Australia?
NZ6216 - to AHC at Omaka 2011
NZ6217 - ?
NZ6218 - ?
NZ6251 - ?
NZ6252 - ?
NZ6253 - (crashed)
NZ6254 - to RNZAF Museum Wigram 2011
NZ6255 - to RAN Museum, Nowra 2012
NZ6256 - (crashed)
'NZ6257' - curio at Ohakea from late 2002
So we have six unreported, and I suspect that '13 and '15 are misreported, so that would make up the eight destined for sale overseas.
Any additions or corrections to this list welcome.
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Post by gunny on May 3, 2012 2:04:27 GMT 12
Wow! I never knew we lost that many! Does anyone have newspaper headlines/pics of wreckage of the lost A-4's?
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Post by skyhawkdon on May 3, 2012 8:01:08 GMT 12
'13 & '15 are included in the 8 that are supposedly going to the US. One small correction NZ6207 - the fake one is at Wigram, not Ohakea!
Gunny you need to buy my book. It has a whole chapter on the Skyhawk accidents, including photos and interviews of the pilots.
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Post by fwx on May 3, 2012 13:59:15 GMT 12
Great book! Get it!!!
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Post by beagle on May 3, 2012 16:27:39 GMT 12
just waiting on my back pay. hopefully get it signed at the next CHCH forum meet.
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Post by fyl on May 3, 2012 19:25:53 GMT 12
Second this!! Should be on every forum members bedside table!! Looking forward to volume 2 in the series.....Don?? Don???
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Post by gunny on May 3, 2012 23:52:23 GMT 12
Don can you send me a link as to where i may find your book?? (Wife will kill me butt, i have so many books i have bought but had no time to read for the last 5yrs)
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Post by obiwan27 on May 4, 2012 21:10:59 GMT 12
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Post by ZacYates on May 6, 2012 10:56:21 GMT 12
I also desire the said book. I will get it in the next month or so.
Now that the FAA Museum has led the way, is it likely any Kiwi museums will repaint their machines into the old low-viz scheme of two greens and grey? Or even converting one back into pre-Kahu condition, complete with hump?
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 6, 2012 19:04:12 GMT 12
The cost of a repaint is probably going to be to prohibitive for most museums Zac. And as the aircraft don't belong to any of the museums who are displaying them, the actual owners will likely insist any work done on them be done correctly, and not a cheap slap up job.
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Post by ZacYates on May 6, 2012 19:41:02 GMT 12
Ah, I getcha. Is this a long-term loan set-up, if anyone knows?
The cost of a repaint makes a lot of sense. It would be nice to see at least one in the older "lizard"/"maritime" scheme. Besides the glossy Ohakea one, that is!
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 8, 2012 16:29:11 GMT 12
The Government still owns all the Skyhawks, they are on loan only (not certain about the one that went to Nowra, that may be a gift). It's like the M113's in musuems, they are on loan, not given, otherwise the US State Dept would pack a poo.
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Post by strikemaster on May 9, 2012 17:53:33 GMT 12
Dave, so the only reason the NZ govt complies is so as to not upset the US? Do they have the (any) authority to cause any real upset? I find it a bit silly that the US State dept gets the final say in NZ domestic affairs. I mean, I get it, but I'd be interested to know how it actually works.
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Post by raymond on May 9, 2012 18:44:22 GMT 12
Basicly it comes down to when you purchase these items there are conditions and agreements you need to comply with. Bear in mind that if you go against these agreements then it would be difficult to obtain parts and support to maintain the other weapons/aircraft in your inventory. There are also international agreements/conventions which dictate who you can sell what to as well, I recall that there are many luxury items you can not sell to North Korea for example!
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Post by beagle on May 9, 2012 18:47:40 GMT 12
There are also international agreements/conventions which dictate who you can sell what to as well, I recall that there are many luxury items you can not sell to North Korea for example! Uranium, F22,
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Post by strikemaster on May 10, 2012 1:00:37 GMT 12
F22 is luxury alright. I'm still saving for mine. After NK's rocket blew up it'll be a while before they can afford a new one.
I'm just wondering, would the US look at restricting trade? I mean, the NZ govt is technically only answerable to its citizens. Legally the US govt would have no power in NZ. How serious could it get. Sanctions? Hypothetically, that is.
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Post by gunny on May 10, 2012 3:34:53 GMT 12
Getting off subject but I think the U.S state dept. want to stop behavior like they conducted when they borrowed the Lamborghini cheetah prototype for assessment. And ya can see what happened next. I love espionage in the sense of the U.S air forces Hierarchies faces when they saw the Russian TU-4/B-29 The mounting of the engine in the rear gave the Cheetah very poor handling characteristics, and the engine choice was not powerful enough to be adequate for the heavy vehicle (2,042 kilograms (4,500 lb)), resulting in overall poor performance. The US military tested the Cheetah and allegedly destroyed the only prototype. The remains were never returned to Lamborghini or MTI.[1] In the end, the military contract was awarded to AM General and their similar looking Humvee. The failure of the Cheetah project, along with Lamborghini financial problems, led to the cancellation of a contract from BMW to develop their M1 sports car. Lamborghini eventually developed the Lamborghini LM002 — a similar design, but with a 12-cylinder motor from the Lamborghini Countach mounted in the front. Attachments:
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Post by raymond on May 10, 2012 15:08:45 GMT 12
There are also international agreements/conventions which dictate who you can sell what to as well, I recall that there are many luxury items you can not sell to North Korea for example! Uranium, F22, From NZ Customs web site Korea — Democratic People’s Republic of (North Korea) – export of (a) Arms, military equipment, and related materiels of all types, spare parts for these goods; (b) Weapons of mass destruction ballisticrelated goods; (c) Luxury goods; and (d) Bunkering services eg, fuel and suppliers to a vessel registered in or owned or registered by the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.
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Post by skyhawkdon on May 10, 2012 15:21:08 GMT 12
Getting off subject but I think the U.S state dept. want to stop behavior like they conducted when they borrowed the Lamborghini cheetah prototype for assessment. And ya can see what happened next. I love espionage in the sense of the U.S air forces Hierarchies faces when they saw the Russian TU-4/B-29 The mounting of the engine in the rear gave the Cheetah very poor handling characteristics, and the engine choice was not powerful enough to be adequate for the heavy vehicle (2,042 kilograms (4,500 lb)), resulting in overall poor performance. The US military tested the Cheetah and allegedly destroyed the only prototype. The remains were never returned to Lamborghini or MTI.[1] In the end, the military contract was awarded to AM General and their similar looking Humvee. The failure of the Cheetah project, along with Lamborghini financial problems, led to the cancellation of a contract from BMW to develop their M1 sports car. Lamborghini eventually developed the Lamborghini LM002 — a similar design, but with a 12-cylinder motor from the Lamborghini Countach mounted in the front. ... and this has what exactly to do with this thread?!! Please keep it on topic Gunny!
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Post by Barnsey on May 10, 2012 17:13:26 GMT 12
So what is happening with the selling and regeneration of the remain airframes? Seems to have gone mighty quiet once again....
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