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Post by corsair67 on Dec 20, 2006 13:21:31 GMT 12
Just curious as to the function of the small radome/unit under the nose of the A-4 - as depicted in this photo which I took of 'NZ6207' at Wigram earlier this year? It seemed to disappear off the RNZAF Skyhawks later in their careers - possibly in the late-1970s-early-1980s? (The Museum need to dust the old girl a bit more often too!)
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Post by FlyNavy on Dec 20, 2006 13:56:23 GMT 12
I'm guessing the ECM equipment was not fitted. The graphic below is from the A-4M Skyhawk NATOPS, which may or may not be relevant. [Hump on early RNZAF A-4Ks was empty.] Phil.
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Post by corsair67 on Dec 20, 2006 14:04:28 GMT 12
Cheers Phil, thanks for posting that document as it answered a few other questions I had about the various "bumps and lumps" on the A-4.
I'm guessing that you are right about the ECM gear not being fitted either.
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Post by FlyNavy on Dec 20, 2006 15:05:49 GMT 12
Only RNZAF personnel will know for sure. Here is a similar diagram from the TA-4F/J NATOPS (USN Skyhawk bible). Phil.
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Post by Radialicious on Dec 20, 2006 18:57:10 GMT 12
Dude, that dust makes it eerily authentic. It completely matches the dust on the rest of the A-4 fleet stored elsewhere in the South Island. I couldn't hate that woman any more if I tried. The museums A-4 was modified from an old school A-4C/L. She used to be N402FS in the states and flown by a civil flight testing company. I have seen one of her sisters N401FS guarding the gate to the Pima Air Museum in Arizona. The black hand gang in 7 hangar pimped this one out to match the A-4K. This involved mainly the lower skin aft of the radome, straightening the fin tip and fitting the larger boundary layer splitter air intakes. Here she is in a former life www.flickr.com/photos/49477825@N00/237137900/Here is her sister www.pimaair.org/Acftdatapics/Douglas%20A-4C.htmI couldn't hate that woman any more if I tried.
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Post by FlyNavy on Dec 20, 2006 20:52:48 GMT 12
Thanks for the detailed reference. From what I can see in my limited collection of old A-4K photos the trainer NZ6251 had no hump but had this 'under nose bump' as shown in the museum aircraft. Whilst a single seater NZ6209 alongside has a 'hump but no bump'. There is some symmetry & poetry in there somewhere. :-) Phil.
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Post by Radialicious on Dec 20, 2006 21:28:13 GMT 12
You are right, the bump was more than a hump but not quite a lump and I should have expained it better. What a chump. In the museum photo the mod that was carried out was a very shallow slipper fairing. You can just see the fasteners in the white paint aft of the radome split line.
Also the jet had no nosewheel steering like ours used to. Another cosmetic add-on was the drag-chute fairing under the jet pipe.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 20, 2006 22:06:22 GMT 12
"the bump was more than a hump but not quite a lump and I should have expained it better. What a chump."
Why does the phrase "And it's goodnight from me, and goodnight from him" come to mind. :-)
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Post by FlyNavy on Dec 20, 2006 22:36:51 GMT 12
Thanks for explanation - I need to consider it offline.
"He are a poet and don't know it." :-) Phil.
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Stormbird262
Flying Officer
DSP with M.Sclerosis & Coeliac who simply love's anything that fly's from what ever age and time
Posts: 69
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Post by Stormbird262 on Dec 21, 2006 0:02:51 GMT 12
Interesting stuff guy's and I love the pic's!
Cheer's for now Phil in Oz!
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Post by Radialicious on Dec 21, 2006 0:18:50 GMT 12
God bless the A-4.
MT once had a driver who worked the pumps, One day he fell ill, struck down with the mumps, Our jets were almost due for the dump, But on his return, they had no humps
Our knuck's hands, now on throttle and stick, A fight our jet could now pick, With Maverick and HUD, Strike wing was rich Hard to believe they were downed by a bitch.
A study was done, it cost lots of course, "They are clapped out and old. What good can they be? Jets aren't needed in our defence force", It was loud and clear from the mouth of the horse.
Helen's a greenie with better use for the cash, By jeez I cant stand her, she is just the pits. Her husbands a poof. A bloke he did pash, Next time I see her, I'll dish out the bash.
We don't fly no jets, they're on their bike, Six decades of history, her mind is a mystery, I have no choice, I can only dislike, Sadly our land is run by a dyyke.
[verse moderated]
Badda-boom!
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Post by Bruce on Dec 21, 2006 7:26:09 GMT 12
cool poem - but look out the anti-sedition Men in black may be coming to visit!...
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 21, 2006 8:30:52 GMT 12
Sorry Radialicious, I very much like your poem but the last verse just had to go, for two reasons, the racist nicknames in the first line really cannot be tolerated, and the last line didn't bear thinking about. Oooh that mental picture.
Sorry that I had to tamper with your poetic work, but as a public forum with family viewing, I have no choice.
Bruce, as for sedition i thinbk he's ok. If he says he's gonna do it, that's merely a threat. If he asks everyone else to do it, that's sedition...
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Post by Radialicious on Dec 21, 2006 8:39:03 GMT 12
Yeah, no problems Dave. I didn't think about that, but as an artist I understand. I'm gonna spend the day with John Lennon and Martin Luther anyway.
Cheers!
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Post by skyhawkdon on Dec 21, 2006 9:37:55 GMT 12
The original 10 A-4K's were "fitted for, but not with" the USN Vietnam ECM/ESM kit of the day. They came with all the antennas, control panels, warning lights and wiring installed, but no black boxes in the hump to make it all work! Phil's A-4M antenna layout drawing is correct for the A-4K also - the K was built at the same time as the M was just starting production. The original 4 TA-4K's however were not fitted for any of the ECM/ESM kit. Phils photo of the A-4K and TA-4K in formation is interesting, but easily explained - the "bump" in question is part of the radome - the TA-4 has been fitted with an A-4 radome - no difference apart from the ECM antenan. I think that photo is from about 1974 from memory. Eventually most of the radomes had the "bump" removed, as were the ECM control panels in the cockpit. They were all thrown out in those 2 containers of pre-Kahu stuff I talked about in another post the other day. I saved 2 sets of the cockpit controllers and they now reside in the Wigram A-4K and Ohakea TA-4K (even tho the real TA-4K was never fitted with them!).
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Post by skyhawkdon on Dec 21, 2006 9:39:15 GMT 12
God bless the A-4. MT once had a driver who worked the pumps, One day he fell ill, struck down with the mumps, Our jets were almost due for the dump, But on his return, they had no humps Our knuck's hands, now on throttle and stick, A fight our jet could now pick, With Maverick and HUD, Strike wing was rich Hard to believe they were downed by a bitch. A study was done, it cost lots of course, "They are clapped out and old. What good can they be? Jets aren't needed in our defence force", It was loud and clear from the mouth of the horse. Helen's a greenie with better use for the cash, By jeez I cant stand her, she is just the pits. Her husbands a poof. A bloke he did pash, Next time I see her, I'll dish out the bash. We don't fly no jets, they're on their bike, Six decades of history, her mind is a mystery, I have no choice, I can only dislike, Sadly our land is run by a dyyke. [verse moderated]Badda-boom! Love your work!!
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Post by corsair67 on Dec 21, 2006 10:19:52 GMT 12
Bruce, you sexist bastard! How can you just assume that the anti-sedition people are men??? ;D
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Post by FlyNavy on Dec 21, 2006 14:02:16 GMT 12
Many thanks for the explanations and poems about ‘bumps and humps’. :-) Phil.
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Post by corsair67 on Dec 21, 2006 16:44:18 GMT 12
Don, do you know if although the ECM gear wasn't fitted at the time of purchase, whether there was an intention to possible add it on at a later stage?
Or was it simply a case of being too expensive for the RNZAF to afford that it was never going to be added?
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Post by FlyNavy on Dec 21, 2006 17:50:57 GMT 12
From my knowledge of the RAN situation in late 60s - early 70s: we were told that the ECM gear could be fitted ‘if needed’ (by the USofA) otherwise the gear was ‘top secret’. NATOPS does not have information about ECM due to the security restriction - other than the diagrams you see. It is likely all outdated by now of course. Phil.
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