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Post by mit on Feb 9, 2014 11:12:54 GMT 12
Don't mind if i cut in there Baz? And one final one for now. Taken in May 1980 this shows the retirement flypast of the Devon fleet(at Wigram at least) led by one of their replacements a Fokker Friendship. Until next time folks! Ok here are some more of Pete's photos. This shows the Devons taxiing in after the last RNZAF flight. This next photo is very historical. It shows the handover of the first Fokker Friendship to the RNZAF. Taken at Christchurch Airport outside the Air New Zealand maintenance hangar May 1980. The same aircraft at Wigram. Note no external wing tanks yet. (Pete told me that the reason the ones fitted were angled down slightly at the front was it was more aerodynamic that way). And heres a shot of two of them NZ2781 and NZ2782 parked at Norfolk Island. And with tanks in place.
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Post by baz62 on Feb 9, 2014 11:15:50 GMT 12
Oh yeah knew i had them somewhere. Thanks Mit! Hows your Devon coming along? Also could you flick me a photo of your 185 with the mountain bikes under the wings as I have a few mountain bike fans who are keen to see them! (My email is with my profile.)
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 9, 2014 11:38:31 GMT 12
There must have been some RNZAF Official shots taken of that Devon Wigram final farewell too?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 9, 2014 11:43:30 GMT 12
In Paul Harrison's book "RNZAF Base Wigram 1916 to 1995" (An RNZAF News Special publication) he mentioned that Devon colour trials were started in 1959 to introduce Fire Orange flourescent paint to the training fleet, with NZ1827 being painted in an "A" Scheme and NZ1828 in the "B" Scheme, and then NZ1812 was painted in "a variation of these schemes for the Wellington Airport opening".
So, what was the difference in each of these three schemes and which was the one selected in the end?
He mentions Harvard NZ1009 also had the "A" Scheme painted on it and NZ1057 got the "B" Scheme. But it is not specific about what each scheme entailed and which was the winner of the trials.
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Post by beagle on Feb 9, 2014 16:38:19 GMT 12
So what sort of range difference did the external tanks provide ?
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Post by baronbeeza on Feb 9, 2014 16:51:45 GMT 12
I believe it was a funny one Beagle. The answer in real terms was not a lot. As far as endurance goes I believe one was airborne for 11 hrs 36 minutes, it was a slow flight from Harewood to Wigram !
Don may be able to ask someone who will have the flight in his logbook. I don't think I am too far out with those numbers.
As for range well it comes down to payload. For trips to Oz the aircraft would have a fair contingent of crew and pax onboard. The extra weight of the tanks etc meant that the usable fuel that could be loaded was only a little more than the wet wing anyway. For maritime patrols the crew was limited to just a little over a handful, same as on Navex's .... it was more an endurance figure for those flights also.
I don't know the real answer but the Nav's and other aircrew will certainly know. I think 2782 was the favourite aircraft, if that was to be used for an Oz trip then the maintenance team could squeeze an extra bod into the crew.
There is a good story how a young LAC managed to get onto a flight in this manner. Strangely enough when the aircraft arrived in Oz he was sporting Sergeant chevrons, - it made the accommodation logistics that much simpler. Perhaps the food was a little better for him as well.
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Post by beagle on Feb 9, 2014 17:33:08 GMT 12
yes have witnessed LAC'S and Cpl's being temporary Sgts while away on exercise
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Post by camtech on Feb 10, 2014 12:47:11 GMT 12
If only one extra bod, easy to "promote" them for the trip. When two or more, got tricky.
On one nav trainer to Oz, the two corporal and baggie with us were able to operate together re accommodation, etc, so no problems.
Re the fuel, travelling further afield, just meant more stops and overnights. Singapore and return was a three day trip each way, with a fuel stop each day as well. Most Aussie trips were via Norfolk for shopping, anyway.
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Post by snaphead on Feb 10, 2014 13:09:08 GMT 12
I recall when I worked at the REO's office in Christchurch my OIC (Selwyn Rabbits)often made me an "honorary" Flt Lt on some of our visits to RNZAF Contractors where accommodation was on base.I recall being an "honorary" at Akl, Te Rapa and Shelley Bay also once at Wigarm for a Christmas do. I felt quite uncomfortable in the Wigam Officers Mess. It was only for the festivities as I lived on Vickeries Road.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 10, 2014 13:54:09 GMT 12
This is all getting very off the topic of Devons now, but I will say I never even realised that the NATTS Friendships flew as far away as Australia and Singapore on exercises. Did the Devons that preceded them in navigational training used to fly abroad too?
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Post by baronbeeza on Feb 10, 2014 15:34:32 GMT 12
I have been on a Devon that crossed Cook Strait, - that was not a bad effort. It would be interesting to see how far afield they actually travelled. I doubt it would be too far. The F-27 had the legs but not the 'hot and high' performance. They never ventured far into the Pacific as the 100 Series were a little gutless with a load in hot conditions. The Chathams was fine, for whatever reason The Oz trips were very frequent and each Nav course had to do an international trip, - if only to Norfolk for some shopping. I have been to Perth twice on the Friendships so a tiki tour about the gafa was commonplace. it may have been a step up on the Devon fleet in a few different ways.
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Post by beagle on Feb 10, 2014 15:40:19 GMT 12
Most Aussie trips were via Norfolk for shopping, anyway. More lego for xmas
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Post by raymond on Feb 10, 2014 18:18:59 GMT 12
I have been on a Devon that crossed Cook Strait, Who said the Devons never deployed overseas!
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Post by scrooge on Feb 10, 2014 18:33:00 GMT 12
ZK-UDO went across the Tasman and back at least once using the auxillary tank. With full tanks and a good supply of oil you have good range/endurance and the aux tank gave a bit more. Possibly a bit down in payload though.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 10, 2014 18:43:36 GMT 12
Was that in its RNZAF service Andrew or its later civilian life?
They were of course all flown to NZ from Britain, weren't they?
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Post by baz62 on Feb 10, 2014 19:19:35 GMT 12
Good old Gipsy ,oil goes in and straight out again!
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Post by suthg on Feb 10, 2014 20:00:23 GMT 12
Is there an oil blend in the priming fuel? Shouldn't need it with an inverted oil bath piston... At least the Queen made 200+ HP...
Sent from my GT-I9300T using proboards
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Post by camtech on Feb 10, 2014 21:25:43 GMT 12
NZ1817 to 1830 were shipped out, but the earlier aircraft were flown out. Must have been an interesting trip.
last comment from me re Friendship - as far as I am aware NZ2781 was the only air force F27 to get to Singapore while in service - January 1986 for display at Asian Aerospace '86, on behalf of Air New Zealand. ANZ paid all out of pocket expenses for the trip, leant us a Volvo 360 rental car, and took us all out for a slap up meal.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 10, 2014 21:47:37 GMT 12
Was that a sales pitch for them to try to sell more converted airliners to military standard?
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Post by camtech on Feb 10, 2014 22:04:44 GMT 12
Yes it was - the aircrew and us techies had to take turns talking up ANZ's work. SAFE were there as well with a display. The show ran for three days so we had a chance to look around.
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