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Post by turboNZ on Mar 15, 2005 9:21:00 GMT 12
Perhaps someone could demostrate the "walk through the Propeller" trick - It is supposed to have been done with these machines! I've also heard that story, I remember the Grandfather telling me. Apparently an "erk" tried it. He went in whole and came out diced !!! So, the Pegasus swung that huge prop slowly,...but not THAT slowly.... TNZ
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 15, 2005 18:29:47 GMT 12
Fron "A Long Patrol - An Illustrated History of No. 1 Squadron, RNZAF 1930-1984" by James Sanders, pages 27 and 28
Some of the recruits were involved in humorous and often amazing incidents - probably one of the most astounding being the occasion when an airman named Shorty Hincho stepped backwards through the slowly revolving propeller of a Vincent. When he realized what miracle his guardian angel had let him perform unscathed, he propmtly fainted.
To the disbeliever it must be pointed out that the great, wooden, two-bladed propeller of the Vincent revolved at only half engine speed - but nevertheles, a transit through the arc, unharmed, would have elevated the performer to the heights of wizardry. Hincho, proving that there was nothing wrong with his eyesight, later went on to become the national archery champion of New Zealand.
I have never seen evidence of other incidents like this, but I have heard rumours that I seriously doubt saying it happened more than once. I assume Hincho had witnesses so it wasn't his word alone. I'd also think the blade must have been going slower than half engine speed for this to have happened.
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Post by turboNZ on Mar 15, 2005 18:43:43 GMT 12
Well I heard that it was actually a fable and didn't happen, but who knows.... TNZ
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 15, 2005 19:10:21 GMT 12
The Sanders book is all based on squadron records and interviews with people in the squadron, and extracts from their diaries. I doubt he'd have published something as fact if it were a myth.
The first time I ever heard about the Vincent prop story was when i joined the RNZAF and we were studying the history of the RNZAF. It was told to us in the classroom along with many other stories about the wartime RNZAF. I believe it is true, not myth.
But there has to be some doubt over how fast the prop was turning. Perhaps it was just beginning to turn over (they were started by electric starters on trucks by the way, no man could swing one of those props.
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Post by turboNZ on Mar 15, 2005 19:31:54 GMT 12
Like I said earlier even a huge prop like that idling at a low speed (and also geared down) would still be spinning rather rapidly. I for one wouldn't want to attempt it..... TNZ
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Post by Bruce on Mar 15, 2005 20:17:53 GMT 12
:)Yup the Guy must have been extremely lucky and Very fast, but it is possible - definitely a "do not try this at home" story! I for one treat every prop, revolving or not with extrem care - they bite!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 15, 2005 21:03:59 GMT 12
One important factor which many have probably not considered is that depending how short "Shorty" Hincho was, he may have gone under rather than through. ;D
So, we've established a fantasy Vincent for the airshow circuit. What RNZAF colour scheme would you like most to see it in? They wore a few... -Prewar silver for Vildebeeste -Early War white overall -Midwar white undersides and sides with brown/green camo on top - Same but with Blue/Green top - Blue/Green all over with sky undersides too. - Also yellow undersides and sides with camo top for target tugs I believe - Any others??
I prefer the white under and sides with camo brown/green top. Classic wartime scheme.
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Post by Bruce on Mar 15, 2005 21:28:29 GMT 12
I always reckon Silver overall looks good on Biplanes, the only problem, especially for myself doing the Collection of RNZAF aircraft models is that virtually everything from 1926 to 1939 was silver, and that looks really monotonous! Perhaps the Target tug scheme would be good - did any have the black stripes applied to later tugs? BTW following up the earlier thread about colour schemes, I have just completed my model of a Hind, I finally chose a generic but accyrate scheme of Dark earth, dark green and sky - the Hind is such a nice looking machine (more attractive than a vincent!)- should see one of those on the airshow circuit soon too. My next model is slightly unusual. Only one of this type was purchased, to replace a "smaller brother" but it never entered service. It was red - can you guess what it was....
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 15, 2005 22:05:58 GMT 12
The very ugly Otter? Mind you the RNZAF scheme wasthe best I've yet seen one look. Can we see photos of your Hind please?? Yes, there will soon be a gorgeous Hind flying in NZ. I saw it a few weeks back when I visited the Subritzky's collection. It is well underway. Now owed by James Slade of the Old Stick and Rudder Company, it is an amazing restoration. The Subritzky's have three other airframes, and afternthis one is done (it's a bomber version) they are going to start a trainer for themselves. See my trip thread on FlyPast frum for several photos of the Hind here forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38505&highlight=subritzky
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Post by Bruce on Mar 16, 2005 20:56:24 GMT 12
I'll get a photo of the Hind Model shortly - have to scrounge a camera from work. You're a worry Dave - you Reckon Vincents look good and Otters Ugly... how can you say that about magnificent Canadian machines
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 16, 2005 21:33:05 GMT 12
How can you not think the Vildebeest and Vincent are lovely? Hehe They are one of Barnes Wallis's more pretty creations. Better than the Wellesley or the bouncing bomb (not as nice as the Wimpy though )
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 16, 2005 21:42:17 GMT 12
Getting back to what you said Bruce about treating porops with care, the first thing we were empatically taught on our Basic Engineering course in the RNZAF was never to touch a prop in case it is live. If some idiot has left the switches on, apparently even a knock can be enough with some engines to engage the starter, so we were told. It'd have to be a hard knock but I'm not willing to try.
Thing is, I ahev seen at airshows so often idiots touching props, waggling them.
In the Warbirds Over Wanaka DVD set covering 1998, 2000 and 2002 there are a couple of quick shots of Joe public handling the props of aircraft, including one of a little kid cuddling the propeller blade! Crazy. I don't think the director should have included those shots which encourage such action, but I guess they didn't know. great DVD's otherwise.
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Post by Bruce on Mar 17, 2005 17:45:25 GMT 12
I was marshalling aircraft at the Waikato aero Club 70th Anniversary show in 2003 (Which was unfortunately shortened by shocking weather) and it was unbeleivable. Crowd control was interesting there as we had the display aircraft on the public area and moved them surrounded by a huge swarm of marshalls (Not an idea I like, but it does allow the public excellent access to the aircraft). We had several instances where the prop had barely stopped moving and people were rushing up to have photos taken clinging onto the Props. We said noone could go near the aircraft until after the Pilot had left the cockpit, and absolutely no one hanging on the prop. Some people looked at us as if we had asked them to stop breathing. Basic sense - if anyone sees this sort of action at an airshow, please explain it gently to them. Of course I couldnt see crowds flocking around a vincent - its soo ugly.... ;D
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Post by turboNZ on Mar 17, 2005 20:19:15 GMT 12
Ha Ha I have to agree with you there, Bruce. Mind you Dave's retort will probably be I like the look of the Vildebeest better..... Anyway Bruce, since you pleaded for a picture, here's a :obeautiful Vincent... (photo courtesy of ;D TNZ
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Post by Bruce on Mar 18, 2005 7:15:06 GMT 12
Aww Wow.... Isnt she Beeeautifull.... (Steve Irwin Impression)
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 18, 2005 14:37:57 GMT 12
Is that a long range fuel tank slung beneath? Or some sort of weapon?
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Post by turboNZ on Mar 18, 2005 16:11:13 GMT 12
Long range fuel tank. Was one of the differences between a Vildebeest and Vincent.
TNZ
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Post by komata on Dec 1, 2013 8:46:18 GMT 12
Although this thread has been long-dormant (since 2005), might I suggest the Gloster Grebe as the 'Must have' aircraft for any New Zealand air show?
Although the NZPAF had previously received war-surplus Bristol F2B's, DH 4's and DH 9's the Grebe was the first 'modern' aircraft that the service received; and it had the added attraction of being a single-seat fighter, a status which was so much more exciting than 'ordinary' bombers and two-seat fighters.
Unlikely that we will ever see one, but, since you asked....
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 1, 2013 11:02:27 GMT 12
One of the NZPAF's Grebe's was a dual seat example. It would be nice to see a replica constructed.
To pick up on Chris's (TurboNZ's) last comment, the Vildebeest and Vincent both used long range fuel tanks in RNZAF service, and probably in some circumstances in the RAF too.
I now know exactly who it was who walked through the propeller arc, and it was not Shorty Hincho as purported in Sander's overall rather inaccurate book. The story is absolutely true, it did occur, but it did not occur on No. 1 (GR) Squadron as Sanders claimed. I used to like that book, but now I realise it's 7/10ths fantasy and I have learned from a lot of veterans how badly disappointed they were by it. I guess that's what happens when newspaper journalists write books.
And on a similar note Bryan Cox had an erk walk into his Harvard's prop arc and get knocked out but survived the ordeal.
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Post by phil82 on Dec 1, 2013 13:57:27 GMT 12
I'd like to see a Canberra at an air show in NZ...and of course OUR Mosquito! Now for the real good oil on the Vulcan which crash-landed at Ohakea.It was not the same aircraft which crashed at London Heathrow, and the crew were not killed in subsequent accidents; also it don't leave Ohakea with Kiwi markings, which was this one this photo taken in Cyprus!
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