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Post by baz62 on Jun 20, 2009 12:25:35 GMT 12
I've got some photos of the Avenger, Hudson and the Auckland based Catalina all parked up outside at Wigram. Must be a record for number of aircraft wearing the RNZAF wartime tricolour scheme parked together!
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Post by baz62 on Jun 20, 2009 18:27:13 GMT 12
Here we go. A few more shots of the Beaver showing her as she arrived in her old Fieldair colours and on her wheels well on with the restoration. The shot below shows George Jaunzemis in the blue overalls and partly obscured is Brendon Pett(who is currently a Wing Commander in the RNZAF) The engine is a Cheetah being fitted with its engine mount ready for the Anson Not strictly from my days at the museum but certainly museum aircraft. Here we have the Hudson NZ2013 and Avenger NZ2504(painted as NZ2521) alongside an airworthy Catalina. And individualy shots of the Catalina and the Avenger. And another shot of the Avenger.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 21, 2009 13:37:05 GMT 12
Super photos Baz!! What was the occasion? Was this the Hudson's roll out?
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Post by vs on Jun 21, 2009 13:57:18 GMT 12
I wish they would display the Avenger with its wings in the flying position....looks much better!
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Post by baz62 on Jun 21, 2009 14:25:03 GMT 12
Actually Dave I'm not quite sure what the occasion was. It might have been one of the Museum Airshows they had, usually in February/March sometime in the last 7 or 8 years (Had to be post 2001 as I was in the UK late 2000/early 2001. And Vs I quite like the folded wing look, its not something many would realise she could do. I remember doing an engine run in her and started her with the wings spread. During the run I folded and spread the wings a few times. According to some of the guys standing with a group of civvies there was a rather surprised look when the wings moved! As seen here taken in 1980 on the occasion of my first time at the helm!
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Post by baz62 on Jun 21, 2009 15:40:45 GMT 12
Dave heres another photo of the "donor" Hudson for NZ2013's restoration.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 21, 2009 17:15:14 GMT 12
Nice!!
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Post by baz62 on Jun 21, 2009 17:46:48 GMT 12
Is that traces of the tricolour blue of there Dave?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 21, 2009 18:09:39 GMT 12
What do you mean by "tricolour blue"?
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Post by baz62 on Jun 21, 2009 18:23:36 GMT 12
Two shades of blue then one white =tricolour
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Post by obiwan27 on Jun 21, 2009 21:34:25 GMT 12
I wish they would display the Avenger with its wings in the flying position....looks much better! Me too......how about one folded and one unfolded??
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 22, 2009 1:44:42 GMT 12
The Avenger seems to get shifted regularly depending on the functions that need the space in the hangar. In the days I lived at Wigram when very few functions too place at Wigram the Avenger had both wings spread. In more recent years on both my visits there and looking at photos its display has varied. I've seen it with one unfolded and one folded, and a photo of both wings folded, and I read in the 30 Sqn Newsletter a few years back that it wasn't even in the hangar but was instead in Hangar Three with wings folded. i think it just depends on when you visit, the display changes. There's certainly space there for both wings to be spread fully, as that's how it used to be and the Spitfire and P-51D haven't changed position on either side to my knowledge.
As for the Hudson above, I guess you're referring to the roundel. The roundel would be further back and not seen here. What you're seeing is the original dark brown and dark green paint showing through what is probably the worn off coat of NZ made blue paint that was applied to most Hudsons (like NZ2013's colours).
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Post by baz62 on Jun 22, 2009 15:12:10 GMT 12
I was referring to the fuselage as there is a definite blue colour there. So that was applied on top of the original green and brown, would NZ2013 been green and brown originally as well?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 22, 2009 17:51:17 GMT 12
Yes, the Hudsons came to NZ straight from the factory and wore US equivalent paint to the RAF colours. Most of them were painted in the factory in the US equivalent paint to RAF Dark Green and RAF Dark Brown. Some researchers including Charles Darby are adamant that some Hudsons also arrived in a green and grey RAF coastal scheme, whereas other dispute this. I am neutral in the argument).
NZ2013 would have definately have served orginally in the brown and green with sky undersides. When No. 3 Squadron went to Santo and Guadalcanal in late 1942 it was decided the brown was not right for the conditions - flying over the ocean for hours and over jungle if over the land. So firstly a locally-made blue paint (the colour as seen on '13 now) was applied to the tops of the wings and top of the fuselage only over the brown areas. A little later the sides of the fuselage got the same treatment. From them on till the end of the war most Hudsons wore the blue and green scheme (except those which were converted to C-63 transports which were sprayed olive drab overall, and those at the Bomber OTU which remianed in the brown and green scheme to my knowledge).
So what you see is the blue has worn off after years in the weather and the original brown and green from the factory is showing through.
It's a much more complicated topic than I have simplified above. More details will be in my books.
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Post by baz62 on Jun 22, 2009 18:42:03 GMT 12
Ahh yes your books. I'm looking forward to reading those. Not trying to hurry you up at all ;D but when do you think they will be available for us eager students of history? Cheers Baz
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Post by baz62 on Jun 22, 2009 18:44:52 GMT 12
I wish they would display the Avenger with its wings in the flying position....looks much better! Me too......how about one folded and one unfolded?? This weekend I will be posting some never before seen photos of NZ2504 and some more photos of some other types both modern and old and all at Wigram and Christchurch. They have been lent to me by Pete Tolhoek from my work. Stay tuned!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 22, 2009 19:09:49 GMT 12
Ahh yes your books. I'm looking forward to reading those. Not trying to hurry you up at all ;D but when do you think they will be available for us eager students of history? Cheers Baz How long's a piece of string. Not easy to say when you have such a huge task ahead. The project's already been in the works since August 2005 and has been chugging along slowly but it has picked up momentum lately, with a hell of a lot more work ahead. Some of the factors that I'm up against are:- Money - I have no budget from a nice publisher to pay for the research, I'm doing it all off my own back and thus being a pauper the progress is slow Time - time is running out to get the stories down of the veterans, but I have been getting a lot of great memories. It is tracking down those still alive and able to tell the stories that is the hardest bit. Content - the reason I embarked on this project is to establish the facts and record them in the most comprehensive way I can, using both the archived fact and figure records and the more human side of history through personal memories (from interviews and memoirs). The story of the General Reconnaissance Squadrons and units has never been told substantially before. They have been given a chapter or two in wider histories of the RNZAF or of squadron histories. But these are far too inadequate to tell the full story of a squadron, they only really look at a few operational highlights (which are then perpetuated from book to book) which single out a few deeds and ignore the hundreds of others. So far the squadrons which have had any coverage (other than in the Official History which are only operational and organisational records, and cover little else) in popular and avaialble history books are: - the Auckland Territorial Squadron (within the book A Long Patrol by James Sanders) in which the mention is skant and almost wholly incorrect. - No. 1 GR/BR Squadron - same book by Sanders, again skant and full of holes - No. 5 GR Squadron - nicely covered in New Zealand Flying Boats by Paul Harrison et al, but I've interviewed a number of different people and found different angles - No. 8 GR Squadron - covered in the rare book We Also Served by Wally Ingham but I have much more info from aircrew and groundcrew (including Wally himself) Other than them, No.'s 2, 3, 4, 7, 9 and 10 GR Squadrons will be covered, as will the Bomber OTU, the School of General Reconnaissance, and the other Flying Training Schools who conducted (as well as trained students in) GR work. There will be technical data on the aircraft hopefully, a list of GR and BR Squadron survivors and details of them, oodles of previously unseen photos and memories not only of operational stuff but also the social life, training and all the things that made up a squadron. To date I have been collecting material for all the units but concentrating on writing up the chapters on the three pre-war Territorial Squadrons and their wartime entities, the NZGR Squadron, and other early war GR work, which I hope will become the first volume. The surviving members of these units are very few and far between, as are any surviving records, and this will be the first time anyone has done them proper justice I hope with full histories and memories and photos. I'll then move onto the post 1941 squadrons once that is out. But that first volume will be important because it will highlight a nearly forgotten era and its men and nearly forgotten aircraft. People forget just how important and how good the Baffin was, and the Vincent. So yeah, the piece of string grows longer but watch this space. Many forum members have been helping to fill the gaps, especially Don Simms, Paul Napier and Craig Buchanan, whose work has helped immensely to fill gaps in the early chapters hen i set them takss in their local archives, etc. So the forum will be the first to know when it's finished.
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Post by baz62 on Jun 22, 2009 21:03:38 GMT 12
Thats brilliant Dave, you will be filling in a big chunk of RNZAF wartime GR Squadron history thats for sure.
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Post by obiwan27 on Jul 17, 2009 14:37:23 GMT 12
Here's a few more pics from the days when the Museum was in 7 hangar as were the restoration facilities.... Firstly 'Baz's' Harvard engine project. Baz can probably tell you more about it, but it may account for his fondness for radial engines.... As you can see it was eventually installed in the Museum's Harvard for display and still reside there to this day... Next, a few engines on display. I'm not sure if all of them are still there or on display...... and lastly for today, NZ3551 with the engine cowlings off, possibly having engine inhibiting work done?? and the 'office' I kind of like the photos from 7 hangar. Not so dark as the setup in 1 Hangar.....
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Post by baz62 on Jul 17, 2009 15:32:43 GMT 12
Theres that Napier Sabre that was discussed a while back! And yes the Dakota was having the engines inhibited (the non running stage where the spark plugs are removed and fresh inhibiting oil is sprayed into the cylinder bores. Yes I enjoyed that Harvard engine project. The core of that engine is an overhauled unit, she has a crankshaft but no conrods or pistons or any internals in the accessory case on the back of the engine(which drives the magnetos, oilpump,etc . They are probably in an airworthy Harvard driving a running engine today!! The cylinders I'm not sure about but they may have been u/s ones. Externally the engine is compete from the engine mount forward. Baz
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