FAC Harvard colour scheme?

[trx850]

Hi to all. Here's a poser for you all. What colour were the two FAC Harvards?



This photo of NZ1056 appears to have a different underside colour - the upper appears to be High Speed Silver, but what's the underside? Aircraft Grey?

Photo from the ''WINGS" collection via Damon Edwards.

Cheers,
Pete M.

[Dave Homewood]

Interesting, I've seen other photos here on the forum of the FAC Harvards but not noticed that before. I think NZ1037 still wears the FAC scheme doesn't it?

[Bruce]

Its not just a reflection of the tarmac is it?

[lumpy]

Thats kind of what I was thinking , maybe a combination of shadows , and a dirty underside , BUT the engine cowl does look painted . Still , I guess a nice new shiney silver could pick up reflections from the tarmac

[trx850]

Hi Dave and all. I've just done a 'Google' on NZ1037 and it's all over silver these days (with a chequered nose cowl).

I have a second photo I'll post that shows her after 'demob' and it still shows, so not a reflection from the tarmac!

Firstly a cropped one marked to show the different shades,



and a slightly cropped original.



The changes show up well in the large scans I did, and it's a pity that Photobucket trims them down so small!

I think you can still see it though.

Cheers,
Pete M.

[Peter Lewis]

May 3, 2009 21:45:09 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

I think NZ1037 still wears the FAC scheme doesn't it?

If this helps:

[agalbraith]

Hi Guys

Pete, I have a colour photo of that aircraft in my collection whilst she was still in service. However I am just heading out for 3 days with work, but will check when I get home Thursday.

Cheers
Anthony

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks Pete, yes that second shot of the Harvard in the air certainly confirms that there's a second colour as the underside. I wonder if the duller colour was used underneath to cut down sun glint reflections so it wasn't so easily seen from the ground. Doesn't really make sense to paint the top shiny silver though if it was about camouflage.

I'd forgotten that Ray Hanna added the checks to NZ1037. Quite a striking scheme now but not entirely historically accurate.

[shorty]

NZ1017 was silver all over. When I can post slides(sigh, heard that before?) I'll show some of it's recovery north of Taupo.

[xbaggy]

I was at 1RD, and worked on 1017 and 1056, to convert them to FAC role. They were fitted with FM radio gear, and had a large whip aerial, mounted on the top aft fuselage access panel. They also had a "towel rail" aerial mounted under the centre section behind the tank panels and forward of the flaps.
1017 was from storage at Wigram, and had a of work to bring it up to current status.
The underside of both aircraft were painted camouflage matt white. The same as the underside of the Freighters of that era.

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks for confirming the colour and for the other details! That's fantastic.

[trx850]

Hi to all. Great, I was sure it was another colour, and not just a reflection! Always fun to try and decipher black and white photos to interpret colours!

Was it NZ1037 or NZ1017? All my references say NZ1037 for the second FAC Harvard!

Cheers,
Pete M.

[Dave Homewood]

adf-serials states that:

NZ1017 was "Fitted out as FAC aircraft with No.14 Squadron in 1965. Force landed after engine failure approximately 9 miles north of Taupo during FAC exercise 12 December 1972. Crew unhurt and aircraft retrieved to Ohakea by road 14 December. Stripped of all useable components and scrapped."

And NZ1037 was "In use by New Zealand Army as FAC aircraft during 1970's. In storage Wigram 1973"

And NZ1056 was " Fitted out as FAC aircraft with No.14 Squadron 1965."

So it seems all three were used in the FAC role.

Reference www.adf-serials.com/nz-serials/nz901.shtml

[Freighter5910]

.

[Dave Homewood]

Perhaps there were different colour schemes over different periods too, after all they wouldn't have had the kiwi roundels when the FAC aircraft were introduced, so maybe other aspects of the scheme altered too?

[harvard1041]

Great Thread

....and thanks to xbaggy for clarifying it all. Indeed NZ1037 was repainted when Ray Hanna got it - the black chequers are something borrowed from his RAF days.

Here are two shots - NZ1037 & NZ1056 - both taken in 1975 - seems to be a bit of a 'white' wavey line under 1056...





Anyone have some FAC shots of 1017 however ?

Rgds
Hvd1041

[tbf25o4]

I saw both NZ1037 and NZ1056 at Ohakea and later at Wigram during their FAC period
I am pretty sure that both have sky grey undersides with a wavy demarcation line lower fueslage and no markings underwing. The latter state is confirmed in the pics shown on the forum. Also both had additiona antennae to cater for the VHF FM radios for comms with the Army. Have some pics somewhere which will confirm underneath scheme

Paul

[Bruce]

56 appears to have grey cowls and accessory section panels too - on the last photo compare the colours with the Airtourer behind and the Harvards in the background. (possibly that "common pool of spares" issue, as with chequered cowlings!)

[xbaggy]

Hi Dave. In 1965 I was still at High School and went through Airman Cadet School in !966. As a Frammy mechanic in 1967-68 I helped to rebuild a FAC Auster after an oops. Think it was "Hope" as they were named "Faith, Hope and Charity."
As a fitter in 1670-71 the Harvard refurbishment line was in full swing at ARS No1 Repair Depot at Woodbourne. Both 1017 and 1056 went through the proccess and were commisioned during that time frame.
I personally made the radio racks and aerial mounts, with salt bath heat treatment technology, which were then anodised by the general engineering Sqn.
At that time the Freighters were also painted at Woodbourrne, and the very same paint was used on the Harvards. (Whether you call it Matt White or Sky Grey).
The "Kiwi" roundels were the order of the day so the A/C sported these.
Interesting to note that some of the Auster pilots were Army. Not sure about the Harvards.

[Peter Lewis]

May 5, 2009 17:46:45 GMT 12 xbaggy said:

As a fitter in 1670-71 the Harvard refurbishment line was in full swing

Jeez, I knew they were old, but not that old - 339 years!