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Post by sopwitht1 on Jul 24, 2009 23:13:06 GMT 12
We also sent an A-4 jockey along with the Task Force to brief the Sea Harrier pilots on what to expect from the Argies - any one know who?
The Harrier pics - and stubbies (!) are pretty ace, mate; "you were there, and so was L&P...". 801 Sqn CO's Sea Harrier, identified by the 'Triple Zilch' (000) code. Possibly 'Sharkey Ward's aircraft? If you look closely at the second picture of the aircraft from the left there are what could be black horizontal lines below the forward windscreen ahead of the ejection warning triangle. 'Sharkey' Ward shot down a few (3?) enemy aircraft during the Falklands War - if you want a terrific read on the air battle, read his "Sea Harrier over the Falklands". Riveting stuff.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Jul 25, 2009 8:53:48 GMT 12
The ex RNZAF A-4 pilot killed flying a Sea Harrier during the War was Al Curtis. He had left the RNZAF and joined the RN some time before 1982 so wasn't "on loan" from NZ as such.
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Post by kiwirico on Jul 25, 2009 19:15:51 GMT 12
The ex RNZAF A-4 pilot killed flying a Sea Harrier during the War was Al Curtis. He had left the RNZAF and joined the RN some time before 1982 so wasn't "on loan" from NZ as such. Besides that, it would not be wise to send pilots into War which is not yours, my opinion! As I have some Argie blood in myself (from my mothers side ) I can inform you that the same was offered to Argentina by Panama, who offered the Argentine military 100 special-forces members. Argentina refused to take the offer. However...... the Argentines still has beautiful Skyhawks ;D Cheers all, KiwiRico
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Post by phil82 on Jul 26, 2009 13:00:56 GMT 12
[Besides that, it would not be wise to send pilots into War which is not yours, my opinion! KiwiRico[/quote]
Flt Lt Al Curtiss came to us [RNZAF]from the RAF, and I'm fairly certain he wasn't a New Zealander. When he joined the Royal Navy as Lt Al Curtiss, he was simply returning home.
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Post by FlyNavy on Jul 27, 2009 16:02:15 GMT 12
Sounds like Al Curtiss was a 'soldier of fortune' (in a nice way). Any A4G pilots in the UK (on exchange with RN Harriers) would have been asked about Skyhawk stuff. Some may have transferred from RAN to RN some time afterwards; but none went to Falklands to my knowledge.
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Post by phil82 on Jul 27, 2009 16:38:25 GMT 12
Sounds like Al Curtiss was a 'soldier of fortune' (in a nice way). Any A4G pilots in the UK (on exchange with RN Harriers) would have been asked about Skyhawk stuff. Some may have transferred from RAN to RN some time afterwards; but none went to Falklands to my knowledge. It's not that unusual; I can recall a number of RNZAF pilots who transferred to the RAF and back again, and of course there are Kiwi-trained pilots in both the RAF and RAAF, thanks to Helen!.
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Post by John L on Jul 27, 2009 18:02:04 GMT 12
, haha. bring bak those short shorts. You mean to say...they aren't in fashion............ but then, us chippies aren't slaves to fashion so I never noticed..... ;D
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Post by kiwirico on Jul 27, 2009 19:43:40 GMT 12
Sounds like Al Curtiss was a 'soldier of fortune' (in a nice way). Any A4G pilots in the UK (on exchange with RN Harriers) would have been asked about Skyhawk stuff. Some may have transferred from RAN to RN some time afterwards; but none went to Falklands to my knowledge. That's interesting, but I think the most RAN (A-4G) pilots who went to RN should have been after 1982, when Australia decided to disband the RAN fixed wing squadrons, right? To my knowledge there were no "foreigner" pilots flying the Sea Harriers (or Harrier GR.3's)...... Short time after the 1982 War some rumours said that USMC pilots were offered, but Britain refused to have them, not sure if this is true Cheers, KiwiRico
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Post by FlyNavy on Jul 28, 2009 0:53:24 GMT 12
kiwirico, I'm not claiming any Australian pilots were in the Falklands at all. Some pilots were able to transfer to RN FAA before 1984 but I'm not privy to details. RAN FAA pilots mostly start on a short service commission, often after their 9 years are up they can go where they please. This would be why some went elsewhere before the end of fixed wing.
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Post by kiwirico on Jul 28, 2009 2:52:15 GMT 12
No problemo my friend, it's allright The War between those two nations is a political one, and we love to speak about aviation rather then politics...... I know that in 1987 one former RAN pilot (I do not recall his name) flew the Jetstream T.2 as instructor! I think he flew the S-2 Tracker in RAN service. Last month I saw the RAF Red Arrows flying here in Holland, two of the pilots were former A-4K pilots from RNZAF..... one of them is Simon Rea Ciau amigo, KiwiRico
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Post by FlyNavy on Jul 28, 2009 8:10:28 GMT 12
KiwiRico, "Jetstream T.2 as instructor" what service was this in? Thanks.
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Post by oldnavy on Jul 28, 2009 9:51:36 GMT 12
Hi guys,
To this day Jetstream T2s are the RN Observer training aircraft. Several ex RAN FAA fixed wing pilots staged through 750 NAS (Observer training sqn) at various times.
In 1982, RN had access to briefings on Skyhawks from several different sources. Not to mention their own people who had served on exchanges on Skyhawks (including two who had been through the RAN process in Australia) the USN, USMC and RAN had active exchange programmes in place in the UK at the time of the Falklands War. In those days, there were hundreds and hundreds of Skyhawks about so there really wouldn't have been much mystery.
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Post by FlyNavy on Jul 28, 2009 9:53:42 GMT 12
ON, tah. ;D
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Post by kiwirico on Jul 28, 2009 19:38:28 GMT 12
Yep, you are right OldNavy, it's RN 750 Sqdn based at Culdrose NAS.
Cheers,
KiwiRico
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Post by mumbles on Jul 29, 2009 11:33:57 GMT 12
In 1982, RN had access to briefings on Skyhawks from several different sources. Not to mention their own people who had served on exchanges on Skyhawks (including two who had been through the RAN process in Australia) the USN, USMC and RAN had active exchange programmes in place in the UK at the time of the Falklands War. In those days, there were hundreds and hundreds of Skyhawks about so there really wouldn't have been much mystery. Amongst all the ranting and raving, Sharkey Ward's book 'Sea Harrier over the Falklands' specifically mentions Al Curtis providing background information on both the A-4 and Mirage III based on his RNZAF experience. There is a good write up of the visit in the Februrary 1984 issue of New Zealand Wings if anyone has it.
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Post by FlyNavy on Jul 29, 2009 13:32:48 GMT 12
mumbles, thanks. I did not know that Al Curtis connection at the time of reading 'The Shark's' book some years ago now.
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Post by oldnavy on Jul 29, 2009 15:12:40 GMT 12
Hey mumbles, apologies if I rant and rave. Al Curtis was a good man who played his part, and who died in very unfortunate circumstances. He happened to be on 801 NAS at the time of the Falklands War, so I am sure he, along with many others, would have had a role to play in war preparations. My double apologies if you read something else into my earlier post, but Al had much support on the briefing front.
I know Sharkey and his book. Having quite a bit of related knowledge I will say no more, other than to mention I am not in the Sharkey fan club and know everything he writes or says is not gospel. Indeed, he is an expert at blowing his own trumpet. Even so, he was a great war time leader and his people followed him then, and they remain loyal to him to this day so he can't be completely bad. ;D
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Post by mumbles on Jul 29, 2009 16:47:21 GMT 12
Hey mumbles, apologies if I rant and rave. Al Curtis was a good man who played his part, and who died in very unfortunate circumstances. He happened to be on 801 NAS at the time of the Falklands War, so I am sure he, along with many others, would have had a role to play in war preparations. My double apologies if you read something else into my earlier post, but Al had much support on the briefing front. I know Sharkey and his book. Having quite a bit of related knowledge I will say no more, other than to mention I am not in the Sharkey fan club and know everything he writes or says is not gospel. Indeed, he is an expert at blowing his own trumpet. Even so, he was a great war time leader and his people followed him then, and they remain loyal to him to this day so he can't be completely bad. ;D No apology necessary, I was referring to the content of the book rather than anything anyone has said in this thread! Sorry for any misunderstanding incurred
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Post by FlyNavy on Jul 29, 2009 17:14:34 GMT 12
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Post by sopwitht1 on Jul 29, 2009 22:04:53 GMT 12
Oops, I hope I haven't started anything I shouldn't have when I mentioned Sharkey Ward's book; my apologies from my end - I also have a bit of a dicky memory - it was a long time ago when I read it. I heard the story about an RNZAF chap who went along from a fellow I used to know in the UK who was aboard HMS Invincible during the Falklands war (Navy, not FAA), although he said he went aboard HMS Glamorgan ('the Glamorous Organ'!) after it was hit by an Exocet. He didn't mention it was Curtis though - I suspect at the time he didn't know.
I believe Curtis and a fellow 801 Sqn pilot failed to return during a Sea Harrier CAP - I read somewhere he was known as 'Bill' Curtis (Lt W.A. Curtis). The official explanation was that he and the other pilot collided in poor visibility. Very sad.
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