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Post by fwx on Aug 13, 2019 12:26:46 GMT 12
Three very nice shots from the "Mac" Baigent collection, courtesy of his daughter Jan. The reverse stamp dates them as 1951. In discussion with Dave, we think they were taken at Taieri (where Mac was based in 1951) after the TAF Mustangs had been allocated to the squadrons but before the "provincial" Otago colour scheme had been applied. Cheers, Chris
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Post by fwx on Aug 7, 2019 11:15:24 GMT 12
Hi Bevan,
No, Noel never flew HK593 "Hell's Angel", she arrived on the squadron only four days before he was shot down.
In his logbook, the op's flown with NE148 "Howzat" are the ones marked with an "H" in the "No." column.
ie., 2 July, 5 July, 9 July, 17 July, 18 July (twice), 20 July, 23 July, 24 July and 28 July.
You can see Noel's operational history here (https://75nzsquadron.wordpress.com/n-a-d-stokes-crew-24-5-44-%e2%80%a0/), but unfortunately that list also wrongly attributes the nickname "Hell's Angel" to NE148.
I will see if I can get that mistake corrected!
Cheers, Chris
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Post by fwx on Aug 1, 2019 12:52:42 GMT 12
In his brilliant book "Bombs On Target" (p.71), Ron Mayhill describes a night out in Sutton, 14 July 1944. A large group of the boys had gone out drinking at The Ship, The White Horse and then at Chequers, before slowly and drunkenly weaving their way home on their bicycles. When they got back to base and were having a cup of tea, they realised that "Slim" Ormerod, squadron Navigation Leader, was missing. A "Search & Rescue" mission was mounted but they couldn't find him anywhere down the country lanes they had ridden. Next morning however he was at briefing, apparently sober but with blackberry scratches on his face.
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Post by fwx on Jul 31, 2019 20:28:56 GMT 12
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Post by fwx on Jul 30, 2019 15:26:17 GMT 12
From the Air Force News Anniversary Issue, April 2017: Leading Aircraftman George West – 1938 George West (Ngāi Tahu) became the first Māori member of the RNZAF when he joined as an aero engine fitter in 1936. Aside from his regular duties at Wigram, George served as the station’s bugler, responsible for playing the 6.30am reveille (wake-up call). He quickly discovered that if he set his alarm for 6.25am he could wake, climb out of bed, raise the window, lean out with his bugle, play the wake-up call, close the window and go back to bed! Sadly, George died on 12 May, 1939, when the Vickers Vildebeest he was flying in as a passenger crashed on the airfield at Wigram.
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Post by fwx on Jul 30, 2019 13:10:57 GMT 12
Hi Errol, Yes the swastika represented a claim as destroyed - you would have to ask the artist why he painted it on backwards! Unfortunately I can't track down any details of who shot what down and when ... There has been some confusion created by this photo's caption, said to be Noel Stokes' aircraft, which was Lancaster NE148, AA-H, "Howzat!". However NE148 was shot down on her 19th op' and as you can see by the bomb markings, this aircraft completed at least 32 op's. This photo is in fact her successor, HK593, AA-H, aka. "Hell's Angel". She was re-coded JN-X in February 1945 after the previous JN-X, ND801 was destroyed over-shooting the Mepal runway and crashing into the rear of a Sutton bakery, taking out a baker's van and chicken coop at the same time. Fortunately no-one killed. This well-known IWM photo shows HK593 on 9 Feb. 45, immediately after re-coding but before flying in anger as JN-X - you can see the "Hell's Angel" and artwork were removed (presumably because they no longer made sense with the "X" code) but the backwards swastika survived:
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Post by fwx on Jul 30, 2019 12:48:05 GMT 12
Thanks David, the reason I said thirteen was assuming that another a/c would be tacked on somewhere to make up for the non-delivery of NZ 300 - it had not been delivered by 4 September when the balance of the order was cancelled. Cheers, Chris
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Post by fwx on Jul 29, 2019 21:22:29 GMT 12
I need to make an apology and retract a statement I made in a post above (Page 1):
"The thirty Wellingtons ordered by NZ were all Mark 1s - there were no Mark 1as in the order. "
Wrong!
It appears that the first five Wellingtons delivered were Mark 1s, but they were to stay in England to be used for training the subsequent Flights.
In fact the next six, NZ 306-311, the aircraft to be flown to New Zealand with the 1st Mobile Flight, were to have been the superior Mark 1As. Although never delivered, they were to have come from a Weybridge order of 120 Mk 1A a/c, serial no.s N2865-2914, 2935-2964 and 2980-3019.
The next six to be delivered after that, NZ 312-317 for the 2nd Flight, were also allocated from that same batch of Mark 1As.
Beyond those, it looks like a prior set of RNZAF-allocated Mark 1 serial numbers had been diverted to another customer, and I can't find any indication of what Mark or Marks the balance of the order (13 more a/c) was to be made up of.
So it's possible that the RNZAF may have ended up with as many as 25 Mark 1As, plus the original 5 Mark 1s.
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Post by fwx on Jul 29, 2019 20:50:17 GMT 12
P/O Neville Williams DFC and his crew: L-R: Sgt Robert Noden (2nd pilot); F/O Donald Mackay DFM (navigator), F/O Neville Williams DFC (pilot), Sgt Harold Smith (wireless operator), Sgt Alan White, DFM (rear gunner). Note the “Bashful” nose art on the Wellington - one of the squadron's Seven Dwarfs. (aircrewremembered.com, Michael Green)
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Post by fwx on Jul 8, 2019 11:47:00 GMT 12
Nice reference, thanks Dave.
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Post by fwx on Jul 7, 2019 19:18:54 GMT 12
Biggin Hill? Please??!
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Post by fwx on Jul 5, 2019 11:55:34 GMT 12
Yes, the call signs are included in the crew lists for the 1st Mobile Flight that NZLO Sid Wallingford sent on 15 August 1939. - Archives NZ.
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Post by fwx on Jul 2, 2019 17:26:00 GMT 12
The Wilcox family are already in touch with Jack Wakefield, thanks Dave. Yes, Oliver Matheson is proving difficult to track down.
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Post by fwx on Jul 2, 2019 17:16:53 GMT 12
Hi madmac,
I saw that reference on the Air Vectors website, that the aircraft was named for Wellington, New Zealand.
Other (likely more credible) sources say it was named after Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington.
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Post by fwx on Jul 2, 2019 16:21:12 GMT 12
Thanks DavidD and DaveH!
The thirty Wellingtons ordered by NZ were all Mark 1s - there were no Mark 1as in the order.
Of the first 'batch' of six intended for delivery to the New Zealand Squadron at Marham, for some reason only five arrived, and of those, four were dual-control. There is a photo of NZ 300's cockpit which proves that she was built, and that she was also dual-control, but she hadn't been delivered to Marham by the time war broke out, and going by the Flight Authorisation Book, never was.
I presume (but have no proof) that the dual-control functionality was the reason that the first five a/c were to be retained in England, for training of the subsequent flights, with the next batch of six to be flown out to NZ as the "1st Mobile Flight".
NZLO S/L Sid Wallingford confirmed suspension of the Wellington order on the 4th of September, the day after war was declared, with the exception of some spares and consumables that would be required to service the five already received.
Newspaper reports say that the route was to have been via Singapore and Sydney. Bill Coleman, one of the pilots, says in a letter home that they were to leave on October 1 and "taking our time and nursing the engines" expect to fly in to Ohakea from Sydney on about the 26th.
Wallingford had prepared "Agreements" covering the transfer of New Zealand officers on Short Service Commissions in the RAF to five-year commissions in the RNZAF and sent these to S/L "Buck" Buckley on 23 August.
When war was confirmed and the ferry flight was cancelled, several officers refused to sign their Agreement. Their concerns appear to have been around loss of seniority and career opportunities within the RAF - after all, they had given up their RAF careers on the basis of ferry flights and going home. Now there was the prospect of being members of the RNZAF dispersed amongst RAF squadrons.
There were some pay disparities that Buckley summarises in a memo - the RNZAF officers were paid significantly more than their RAF counterparts, but this seems largely due to special allowances paid while on "special duty" with the RAF in the UK - these may have stopped when war broke out.
Wallingford mentions the non-signings in a letter on the 19th of September 1939 and uses quite strong terms of disapproval, suggesting that the RAF may not honour their SSCs should the war end quickly, and that they may have already lost their previous seniority. He warned "If the agreements are not signed there is a risk that they will become "nobody's children" with all the consequences."
Five of the officers (Breckon, Coleman, Collins, Lucas, Williams) held out and in fact took this a step further by lodging applications to transfer back to the RAF. Letters went back and forth attempting to dissuade them for another four months; things seem to have got quite tense!
This was not resolved until 9 February 1940 when the five finally withdrew their applications "owing to the severe conditions imposed" by the Air Ministry.
These had included:
- refund of all Air Ministry gratuities received during the time with the RNZAF - time with the RNZAF to be treated as leave without pay - applicants cannot be posted to their old units - applicants would not be eligible for re-transfer to the RNZAF during hostilities
So they didn't want to stay with the RNZAF - they were forced to!
Cheers, Chris
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Post by fwx on Jul 1, 2019 17:16:32 GMT 12
Sorry, I'm a bit late to the discussion (away on holiday) but it's one that I find fascinating.
As pointed out above, the first flight of six aircraft was due to arrive in NZ at the end of October 1939, and the subsequent Flights (each of six) to arrive approx. February, April, October and December 1940.
So there would only have been six Wellingtons in New Zealand in the time frame you are talking about. Too few and too far to return them to England, I think.
Their original purpose included support of Australia and Singapore so it's possible that they may have been sent up to Singapore in 1942, although doubtful how effective only six aircraft would have been. Probably less than six by then, with attrition and no spare airframes. And by then the Wellington had been found to be no match for fighters, generally restricted to night operations in Europe. More likely I think that they would have been retained in their maritime reconnaissance role down here.
No matter how many made it to NZ, there was also an issue with their performance. They were Mark 1 Wellingtons with ineffective Vickers front and rear gun turrets with very limited maneuverability and a ventral "dustbin" turret that was highly impractical. The Mark 1s were virtually obsolete by the time war was declared and I doubt many, if any, were used on war operations. The Mark 1a was a significant improvement with decent Nash & Thompson turrets and a strengthened undercarriage.
New Zealand's Wellingtons would have arrived minus armaments (removed for the ferry flights) and probably would have required significant modification to bring them up to some form of combat readiness.
Great thread, thanks!
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Post by fwx on Jun 13, 2019 12:13:37 GMT 12
Actually, there are a couple of photos of Jack Plummer in the book: Plummer crew, with Jack at right (NZBCA archives, Ron Baker collection): This photo (not in the book) shows Jack with his DFC up (cropped from a group photo in the NZBCA archives): And this from his AWMM entry (NZ Weekly News): Cheers, Chris
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Post by fwx on May 22, 2019 12:04:29 GMT 12
So Sutherland was RAF, but is that correct about the exclusion of Maori from the NZPAF / RNZAF up until 1935?
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Post by fwx on May 22, 2019 10:26:30 GMT 12
Anyone know that Maori were not accepted into the Air Force up until 1935??!
Amazing that they were "allowed" to serve (and die) in the Army in WW1, but not in the Air Force, and not for another 17 years!!
I'm presuming that although listed as a Fitter at the time of his death, West was still hoping to become a pilot.
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Post by fwx on May 21, 2019 21:34:44 GMT 12
Wow, just came across this, the aftermath to the tragic loss of three RNZAF personnel in a Vildebeeste crash at Wigram on the night of 11 May 1939. They were carrying out dual instruction circuits & landings when they hit a tree, killing the pupil pilot, Acting Pilot Officer Reginald James McCrorie of Wanganui. there was a fire and Pilot Officer William Frederick Dawson (the instructor) and Leading Aircraftsman George West (a Fitter) were admitted to the Christchurch Public Hospital with severe burns, but died in the hospital the following day.
Press, 23 May 1939
FUNERAL
LEADING AIRCRAFTSMAN G. WEST
The military funeral of Leading Aircraftsman George West, who lost his life in the recent aeroplane accident at Wigram, was one of the biggest and most impressive seen in Bluff in recent years.
A procession of about 50 cars extended over a long distance behind the hearse. Carried by six bearers, the coffin, draped with the Union Jack, was carried from the house between lines of cadets from the Southland Technical College.
Members of the Royal New Zealand Air Force were bearers at the graveside. They were Corporals J. Claydon and D. Hurley, and Leading Aircraftsmen R. Jones, J. Macintosh, R. Seddon and F. Rutherford. The Air Force was represented by 10 airmen, four of whom travelled to Invercargill from Wigram by aeroplane. With this group was Flight Lieutenant R. J. Cohen, representing the Minister for Defence (the Hon. F. Jones) and the Chief of the Air Staff (Group Captain H. W. L. Saunders). Six others, friends of Leading Aircraftsman West, escorted the body from Christchurch. Military and civic representatives were also present at the funeral.
Leading Aircraftsman West was the first Maori to be accepted as a member of the Royal New Zealand Air Force. His death ended a promising career. Born in Bluff, he was the eldest son of Mr George West, of Invercargill, and formerly of Bluff, and the late Mrs West. At the Bluff Public School and the Southland Technical College, where he received his education, he showed great promise.
While at the Technical College he won a scholarship which entitled him to train as an air pilot. At that time no Maori was permitted to enter the Air Force and it was not until 1935 that this restriction was relaxed and he was accepted. He was a member of the New Zealand Maori Choir which toured Australia about five years ago. After his return from the Commonwealth and until joining the Air Force, he was employed by Cable and Company, an engineering firm In Wellington.
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