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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 1, 2012 21:25:12 GMT 12
It has all happened before (the HUGE traffic stuff-up at a RNZAF anniversary airshow at Ohakea). There are plenty of accounts about what occured at the 21st anniversary airshow at Ohakea in 1958. I guess the RNZAF should have learnt from that one, eh?  Did you read this thread? The RNZAF was not responsible for traffic management! Well presumably the RNZAF handed over responsibility for traffic management. Did they actually check to see if a viable plan was in place? |
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Post by skywarrior on Apr 1, 2012 21:26:28 GMT 12
They should of had the airshow in auckland You have to be joking! Would that be the Auckland which until directed by the Government had eight city councils, eight Chief Executives, and thousands of bludging councilors for a population a fifth the of the size of Melbourne, and which couldn't organise a piss-up in an brewery? That is exactly the Auckland that I'm talking about |
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Post by FlyingKiwi on Apr 1, 2012 21:41:01 GMT 12
After missing out on being able to fly into Ohakea (blessing in disguise actually) we had a contingency plan of renting a van in Wanganui and driving to the airshow, but made the decision the day before to drive to Bulls and get on a bus from there. Left Wanganui at 6:45, got to Bulls about 7:15, got on a bus at 7:30 and were on the base by 7:45! Getting out only took about 20 minutes or so. Certainly seems like the traffic was poorly managed though - we just got lucky with our planning I think!
Traffic chaos aside, I thought the actual air displays were fantastic - only low-lights for me were the stupid decision to not display Brendon's Spitfire (I assumed it had a technical issue but apparently not!) and the monotone "buy one now and get a free set of steak knives" commentary which went with the "Beech T-6C Texan II" (if I hear that name again I'll do something drastic!) The C-17 display wasn't nearly as spectacular as the one at Whenuapai a few years ago either, but I think they've toned it down after they lost one a while back in a display practice doing a low and slow steep turn.
Lots of highlights though - The Hornets were amazing, the formation team were super tidy and that low level pass over the crowd at the end had me grinning from ear to ear once I collected my senses, and the solo display was a lot more intense than I remember it being at Whenuapai last time. Great to see the Avenger fly, even after seeing the photos of it arriving I wasn't quite prepared for how huge it is when you stand next to it! Doug Brooker's display in the MX-2 seems to get more and more insane every time I see it, as does Dave Phillips' Tiger Moth routine. (did anyone else see it cross over the runway in front of the Warbirds DC-3 though - not sure that was planned?) Also the P-750 when it did eventually display was a highlight for me - I always thought XSTOL was a bit of a marketing gimmick but that thing really does have unbelievable takeoff and landing performance, especially given there was virtually no wind.
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Post by ErrolC on Apr 1, 2012 21:41:21 GMT 12
I just found the following video clip of the F/A-18 display on YouTube.... That is pretty damn good |
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gebbw
Pilot Officer
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Post by gebbw on Apr 1, 2012 21:59:40 GMT 12
You have to be joking! Would that be the Auckland which until directed by the Government had eight city councils, eight Chief Executives, and thousands of bludging councilors for a population a fifth the of the size of Melbourne, and which couldn't organise a piss-up in an brewery? If you're referring to the RWC then yeah, but it would seem that it's not only Auckland that can't organise, given the comments so far about traffic at the airshow!! The traffic thing is weird, because coming from the north, it was literally straight in. I guess the river stops people from rat running the side roads - and I thought that was an Auckland thing - hah! Maybe you should move to Auckland and then travel to an airshow in Ohakea like we did! ;D Actually Whenuapai 09 show was pretty good. Personally, I had no issue with traffic then either. If I recall correctly, it seemed that the warbird displays are first half, then airforce. Personally I prefer that format, as it's Air force hardware I've really come to see, not the warbirds, afterall it's an RNZAF show. It gives me time to check out the static displays, hangars and exhibits then find a good place to sit down and watch the Air force displays. WOW is the place for warbirds! The setting there is unreal as well as the atmosphere. Disappointed the RNZAF hercs were nowhere to be seen, and no static 757. The 3 ship display with P3, herc and 757 they did at Whenuapai 09 and I was disappointed it wasn't to be for the 75th anniversary. In saying that though having the Hueys and Seasprite display together was awesome. Was great chatting to the USMC crew and the Aussie crews. I thought the C-17 display was really outstanding and good to see the Hickam Crew this time. When I saw the Elmendorf C-17 last weekend at Whenuapai I assumed that was going to be the one. The Hornet solo was really good, up there with the Super Hornet display at Avalon a couple years back. (Now THAT was awesome). Overall we really enjoyed it. For me, my two boys, my brother and my Dad it was well worth attending. |
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Post by mumbles on Apr 1, 2012 22:03:06 GMT 12
I just found the following video clip of the F/A-18 display on YouTube.... That is pretty damn good Yup, especially the comments and titles at the end ;D One of the things I like about fast jets (especially afterburning ones) besides the performance is the sound, and the way it moves and engulfs (for lack of a better term) the observer. That was pretty cool. |
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Post by mumbles on Apr 1, 2012 22:05:07 GMT 12
(did anyone else see it cross over the runway in front of the Warbirds DC-3 though - not sure that was planned?) I did, also thought it looked a bit 'hmmm', but it probably looked worse than it was. |
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Post by phil82 on Apr 1, 2012 22:07:27 GMT 12
Good on ya! The RNZAF are short of Hercs at present, and when the one available fell over, that was it. Likewise, the 757 was scheduled for elsewhere so wan't open to the public. Aircraft availability isn't always ideal when you have the bare minimum of frames because, let's face it, air shows are not the reason for being!
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Post by Freighter5910 on Apr 1, 2012 22:08:45 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 1, 2012 22:39:26 GMT 12
I must say I really enjoyed both the Spitfire display and the MX-2 display from Doug Brooker, Brett Emeny's Vampire display, Phil Hooker's Furio display, Dave Phillips' Tiger Moth and Hunter displays, and Dave Brown's Strikemaster display. All were awesome.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 1, 2012 22:45:39 GMT 12
It's really sad that all the problems surrounding the airshow are somewhat overshadowing the really great, positive parts. I personally had a terrific time and loved all the flying. My only complaint personally was the campers on the flightline. But I do feel sad for all those who were not as fortunate as me in getting in the gate early.
I have to admit that till I saw a photo tonight I had no idea that there was actual cars on the runway racing. I thought the race was the Iroquois pair dropping the cars. That's what comes of being behind the crowd at the fenceline, you cannot see anything at ground level.
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Post by stereoimage on Apr 1, 2012 23:48:40 GMT 12
Well I dont have too much to add that has not been said already, but I had a great few days at Ohakea, and thought the RNZAF did a great job. I have been to airshows all over the world and I can tell you none of them had programs that happened in the order printed, and they all take AGES to get to (apart from in Germany! You can guess why haha)... Also most of their displays are MUCH further away than we get away with in NZ. I think the saying is "Flexibility is the key to Airshows..."? I was really bummed out that the two ship spitty formation was canned though of course. It was a real shame that one of our C-130's couldn't join the Hercules Fest that was going on! This is the way of things... As far as the traffic nightmare goes I heard from RNZAF staff that the civilian company contracted to perform traffic management arrived onsite almost 1 our late. The RNZAF paid a civilian consultant to prepare a traffic management plan, that the Police and RNZAF were adhering too, but in the panic of their late arrival the company that was executing it failed to follow. Apparently the company had no internal comm's facility to co-ordinate things and the police stepped in at the last minute. This is just what a few individuals told me so take it with a grain of salt. How crap has the media coverage been! Wow... From the tone and obvious contempt the mainstream media people already had on the Friday media day you could tell it was all going to be bad news or no news at all... I overheard a certain young newspaper reporter respond when asked if she was looking forward to the airshow on saturday "Are you joking? I have a day off tomorrow... why would I come here?" I was staying in Palmy and left at 6.30 am, got to Ohakea at 7am (Learnt my lesson from previous airshows!) There was no traffic anything in-place at that stage, I literally drove straight onto the airfield, pulled up next to a C-17 and asked a random in uniform 'where should the media park?' haha. I was lucky enough to get the static aircraft to myself for a while  The editor of the magazine arrived early too and backed his ute up near the crowdline, so that was us for the day! In hindsight I shouldn't have been so lazy, and moved around more, My photos are all kind of the same and I missed some great angles judging from the photo thread... Damn it was a good perch though! I will put some photos up on the other thread soon... All in all a great day I thought! Highlights: NH-90 flying and very keen to talk crew - Avenger flying - Meeting some of you on friday in Brendons hangar - Huey flight on the friday - That INSANE Tiger moth display! What a legend! Someone said it was Dave the hunter pilot flying it? |
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Post by matariki on Apr 2, 2012 8:05:09 GMT 12
Hardyakka - the PAC750 was told to start up and didn't. On being asked how long until he was ready to line up for his display, the tower was told 5 minutes. He was due on in 2. If he'd started up when told to, no problem. He hadn't, so he was cancelled. Someone else's display (someone who was ready to go) was moved forwards. The choice becomes cancelled display or 3 minutes gap.
Bruce - Airways was responsible for ATC-ing inwards lightie traffic. They were dealing with 130 aircraft in 2 hours. When nearly half of those aircraft have pilots who expect to be able to show up with half an hour to go and be able to land... you're joking right? 1 a minute is more than manageable, 1 every thirty seconds is not.
Just like car traffic, those who showed up early got in with no trouble, those who showed up late with the expectation of sailing through had a rude awakening to the realities of moving a large number of people.
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Post by Bruce on Apr 2, 2012 8:27:07 GMT 12
Bruce - Airways was responsible for ATC-ing inwards lightie traffic. They were dealing with 130 aircraft in 2 hours. When nearly half of those aircraft have pilots who expect to be able to show up with half an hour to go and be able to land... you're joking right? 1 a minute is more than manageable, 1 every thirty seconds is not. Just like car traffic, those who showed up early got in with no trouble, those who showed up late with the expectation of sailing through had a rude awakening to the realities of moving a large number of people. Disagree... Ever heard of Oshkosh? Simple procedure, pilots dont talk, careful thought on where to land people... |
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Post by sqwark2k on Apr 2, 2012 8:59:47 GMT 12
Rumour of the day re: the civie fly in was that 1 chap in a C180 had been holding over Manfield for an hour when he turned off his radio, sequenced himself and landed to then turn on his radio and advise tower he was already there. Not sure of it's authenticity, but still made a good story. |
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Post by phil82 on Apr 2, 2012 9:14:50 GMT 12
As far as the traffic nightmare goes I heard from RNZAF staff that the civilian company contracted to perform traffic management arrived onsite almost 1 our late. The RNZAF paid a civilian consultant to prepare a traffic management plan, that the Police and RNZAF were adhering too, but in the panic of their late arrival the company that was executing it failed to follow. Apparently the company had no internal comm's facility to co-ordinate things and the police stepped in at the last minute. This is just what a few individuals told me so take it with a grain of salt. How crap has the media coverage been! Wow... From the tone and obvious contempt the mainstream media people already had on the Friday media day you could tell it was all going to be bad news or no news at all... I overheard a certain young newspaper reporter respond when asked if she was looking forward to the airshow on saturday "Are you joking? I have a day off tomorrow... why would I come here?" You've got it pretty well spot on ! On my way into Sanson from Foxton there wasn't a single indication of where traffic would be directed. Not one! At 0750 we were redirected from the turn off to Ohakea itself, back toward a previously unmarked turn off. This reversal involved about fifty cars having to do a u-turn on SH1!!!! We the had to divert all the way around the Base until we arrived at the Main Gate from the opposite direction but about 300 meters from where we had been redirected. Blind Freddy is alive and well and living in NZ. The media coverage is, as you succinctly put it, crap; from the Sunday Star Times reporter who identified one aircraft which doesn't exist, and another which wasn't there, to the NZ Herald photo of the new F18 Hornet/ Spitfire. The Wellington DomPost makes no mention of the event whatsoever this morning! |
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Post by Peter Lewis on Apr 2, 2012 9:29:37 GMT 12
The RNZAF was not responsible for traffic management! What (should be) engraved on every bureaucrat's desk: You can delegate the work, but you cannot delegate the responsibility. |
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Post by baz62 on Apr 2, 2012 10:47:13 GMT 12
At the risk of forum rage Teresa and I had a lucky escape i think. I was talking to a friend of ours in Wellington and when we learned we were both going to the show we decided to meet. Now the good thing about Paul is he works for the NZDF archives hence he owns the vital NZDF pass.
When we got into the southern entrance to the base on Pukenui road (from Tangimoana Road/Speedy Road etc)) and came across a queue we were allowed to follow Paul past the line of cars and get onto the airfield. However we arrived there at 7:30 because I had the feeling the weather might bring out a lot of people. Even if we hadn't had Paul we would have been on the base not long after as the cars we passed started coming through.
I also decided to leave early (about 3:30) and that worked out for us too.
I am sorry to hear about the hassle some people went through (and hope I didn't pass you in that queue!) but for me the show itself went well.
I am now heading for my bunker. ;D
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Post by efliernz on Apr 2, 2012 12:06:53 GMT 12
Good on ya Baz! I am another lucky one where I told the people I was picking up in Palmy that I was leaving at 7:30... if they were not ready, tuff  We of course were on base by 8:10 parked next to a Singapore C130. After the show, we kept looing around (ice cream in hand) until 5:40. The northern park (between heli hangar and C130's / CASA) was empty with no one leaving so I convinced traffic management that they should start using that gate too. In Palmy by 6:10. Easy! Pete |
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 2, 2012 12:10:57 GMT 12
When we got into the southern entrance to the base on Pukenui road (from Tangimoana Road/Speedy Road etc)) and came across a queue we were allowed to follow Paul past the line of cars and get onto the airfield. I pulled a similar trick for three consecutive Warbirds over Wanaka airshows in 1996, 1998 and 2000. After the huge traffic jams in 1992 and 1994, the Police closed the outbound lane of the state highway in each direction from Wanaka Airport and operated the highway as a two-lane one-way road. In 1996, I (and the friends in the car with me) arrived from the direction of Wanaka at about 6:30am (having driven over from Queenstown) to discover we were at the end of a large queue of vehicles almost a kilometre long waiting to enter the airfield. As 7:00am (gate opening time) got near, a Police car ran a sweep along the opposing lane towards the airfield, then returned. The cop car then turned around and headed back towards the airfield (with lights still flashing) in order to open the second lane. As it passed us, I pulled out and followed the cop car (we literally got a police escort all the way to the gate past the queue) and we were the very first car through the gate. I got away with pulling off that cheeky trick three WOW airshows in a row! ;D |
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