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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2012 16:13:23 GMT 12
I will post my thoughts and experiences on my blog, to give me time to think.
In two words: Not impressed, especially after Brendon's comments regarding the AL solo. It seems Sean thinks very little of that decision.
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Post by hardyakka on Apr 1, 2012 18:26:50 GMT 12
The PAC 750 was supposed to display but after an engine start he was told to shut down and his display was cut due to overruns. A cycle was put on the PT6 for no reason. The pilot was not a happy camper.
Apparently the first domino in the programme to go haywire was the 757 not being ready to go on time. Cutting the Spitfire was probably not a good decision from an aviation enthusiast point of view, but being an RNZAF show they chopped non-air force items first.
When a show is programmed so tightly with no allowance for slippage bad things start to happen. It might be good idea to have every item prepare a "shortened display" plan that can be activated on an act-by-act basis as necessary to put the schedule back on track. That way no-one gets cut, just compressed.
It was still a good show... In fact, the forum meetup at Biggin Hill was worth the drive from the 'Tron. I've been to a few events where the traffic plan has been overwhelmed by sheer numbers and I'm not sure what the answer is.
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Post by conman on Apr 1, 2012 18:39:24 GMT 12
The food outlets were overwhelmed, would have been good to see the RNZAF put on a big sausage sizzle like I have seen at the RAF Mildenhall airshow were all the different units have a catering outlet, creates a great atmosphere, a sausage and a piece of bread are pretty easy to whip up and some money could have been raised for RNZAF social clubs etc.
The upgraded Orion looked pretty slick both inside and outside, was also impressed by the NH90, the stripped down spares airframe showed what a solid construction it is and how big the interior space is.
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Post by kiwi on Apr 1, 2012 18:51:14 GMT 12
I have not read the thread through but I cannot believe there are not some really peed off punters out there , really glad I did not buy a ticket before hand .
We left Palmerston North at 8am , arrived at the start of the queue on that rise just south of Sanson , stayed with the car till we had followed the diversion down the side road just south of Ohakea . Left the others with the car halfway down that road and walked following the signs from there , arrived at the gate at 1pm , the car arriving 15 mins later . Very poor planning by the organisers .
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Post by Bruce on Apr 1, 2012 18:54:18 GMT 12
I was at the Tokoroa Fly - in, which of course didnt have traffic issues, but chatting with a number of friends who flew down, the aircraft arrivals process was a farce too, with 30 aircraft orbiting Marton for up to an hour (those in the great circle had a few scares too!) Although there was a Grass runway set up on the south of the seal, beside the aircraft park, I am told they landed the arriving "lighties" to the north of the seal, and had to hold them to cross the seal. It is a pity that the overwhelming impression I get of the show is appalling lack of organisation, even though it probably was very good from the display point of view... Bet you they didnt have Venison Stew like we had at Tokoroa!  |
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Post by kiwi on Apr 1, 2012 19:00:49 GMT 12
Craig, I think it's a combination of average roads and people leaving it a bit later than they should to get to Ohakea. At Wanaka the air show programme starts at 10am and the gates open at 7:30am and that's the sort of lead in time required for a big airshow. Unfortunately, the average 'once in a while' airshow goers don't realise this, hence the jam I suspect. Maybe those fortunate enough to be at Ohakea today can let us know when the gates opened on the base. The fault would appear to be with the organisers who were not having the gates open till 8am . |
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Post by mumbles on Apr 1, 2012 19:13:46 GMT 12
I was at the Tokoroa Fly - in, which of course didnt have traffic issues, but chatting with a number of friends who flew down, the aircraft arrivals process was a farce too, with 30 aircraft orbiting Marton for up to an hour (those in the great circle had a few scares too!) I wondered if something was up other than numbers. I could see aircraft orbiting in the distance, and they were still arriving even as the Hunter was holding at the end of the runway prior to starting the show. |
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Post by phil82 on Apr 1, 2012 19:22:00 GMT 12
I have not read the thread through It might be a good idea to do so ;D You would learn, for example; That Traffic Management was not the fault of the RNZAF The cockeyed decision to cancel the AL Spitfire display but allow Hoons in a Holden/Falcons to perform was done by the show committee [whoever] who were clearly on something very mind-bending an illegal. Likewise the two Hueys dropping "accidently" red and blue cars was childish and dated beyond belief! |
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Post by skywarrior on Apr 1, 2012 19:33:04 GMT 12
I thought the airshow was pretty good. Great to see all the visiting military aircraft. No RNZAF C-130? A shortened 757 display? I think the hueys saved the day. Where was the RAF? The texan II didnt look very impressive. Awesome RAAF presence, cheers guys. Cool C-17 display too.
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Post by Ykato on Apr 1, 2012 19:43:26 GMT 12
The PAC 750 was supposed to display but after an engine start he was told to shut down and his display was cut due to overruns. A cycle was put on the PT6 for no reason. The pilot was not a happy camper. Apparently the first domino in the programme to go haywire was the 757 not being ready to go on time. Cutting the Spitfire was probably not a good decision from an aviation enthusiast point of view, but being an RNZAF show they chopped non-air force items first. When a show is programmed so tightly with no allowance for slippage bad things start to happen. It might be good idea to have every item prepare a "shortened display" plan that can be activated on an act-by-act basis as necessary to put the schedule back on track. That way no-one gets cut, just compressed. It was still a good show... In fact, the forum meetup at Biggin Hill was worth the drive from the 'Tron. I've been to a few events where the traffic plan has been overwhelmed by sheer numbers and I'm not sure what the answer is. Pity the P-750XL puts up a pretty  display, sounded like he put one on noise wise on arrival back in Hamilton. |
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Post by Deane B on Apr 1, 2012 19:43:38 GMT 12
Couple of points to note: -While contracted traffic management may have been planned and in place, the only people I saw directing traffic at any point were either NZ Police of NZDF personnel. No civilians. If they were out there, we never saw them. -No signposting from Sanson directing traffic to Speedys, and no signposting at Speedys to alert Air Show traffic. Both of these have been the norm at OH Air Shows past, and lacking them may have been a significant contributing factor to yesterday's problems. Having been to many shows at OH, this is the only one I have ever heard of having traffic issues of this magnitude. Something has clearly changed or gone awry somewhere. We left Wellington at 7 am and turned off at Speedy Rd at 9, following aother traffic - there were no sign posts. I'd expected to see an airshow sign at least. We hit the que shortly after and luckily a member of the public (yes public, not military, police or contracor) was marshalling traffic at the corner of Fagans and Speedy Rd. After that a shambles as the que inched forward. It really does not take much thinking to realise that all the traffic from south and East is going to flow down just one lane. Even after turning onto Pukenui Rd, which rund past base - why did they not use both lanes to get cars into both parking areas quicker? We were parked by 10.40, and ended up pretty close to the crowd line, which was great, so didn't have to carry seats or lunch around !. When we left it took an 1hr 40 min, just to get to the base perimeter. That was more shocking as it was just stupid to have just one gate for so many cars, as well as having to stop them to allow airshow related traffic to cross from time to time. By the time we got onto Tangimoana Rd the traffic was freely flowing doing normal speed, so was all good for travelling home. I'd been to the "81 and "87 airshows at OH so knew to expect some delays, but yesterdays were very bad indeed. All in all I'm glad we went as it was a great day despite some delays, but I I feel very sorry for those people who had bigger delays. |
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Post by Peter Lewis on Apr 1, 2012 19:58:58 GMT 12
Rules for airshows:
Always wear hat with a brim, long trou, shoes and socks - saves the sunburn.
Always take your own food and drink with you to the event, otherwise you will spend all day queuing.
Update from WP today:
Both 757s were back in residence.
Also parked were the Singapore, American and Australian Hercs, the French CASA and the C-17.
The C-17 departed off RW08 at 1455hrs, presumably back home to Hawaii.
RNZAF Herc 04 carries '75th Anniversary' sign-writing. Presumably this was intended to be the airshow Herc before the gremlins struck.
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Post by skywarrior on Apr 1, 2012 20:10:58 GMT 12
They should of had the airshow in auckland
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Post by kiwi on Apr 1, 2012 20:16:35 GMT 12
I have not read the thread through It might be a good idea to do so ;D You would learn, for example; That Traffic Management was not the fault of the RNZAF The cockeyed decision to cancel the AL Spitfire display but allow Hoons in a Holden/Falcons to perform was done by the show committee [whoever] who were clearly on something very mind-bending an illegal. Likewise the two Hueys dropping "accidently" red and blue cars was childish and dated beyond belief! Did I say the RNZAF were responsible ? That fact is that it was a complete stuff up for a large proportion of those who attempted to attend , why else are they giving refunds and why else did they stop charging at the gate . They started the show on time knowing that less than 10% of the expected crowd had actually made it inside according to an earlier post . It was only at about midday that they started to organise traffic flow from what I saw . |
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Post by Deane B on Apr 1, 2012 21:03:16 GMT 12
Forgot to mention....at one of the intersections with Speedy Road where it was total gridlock with traffic from the other road merging, things were starting to degenerate into road rage about the time we reached that point. A couple of members of the public took it upon themselves to start directing traffic at that intersection, which appeared to be a huge help. I heard a lot of comments from disgruntled motorists all around us questioning why the RNZAF or Police hadn't organised people to direct traffic at that and other intersections. And I've got about a thousand photographs (after culling out the obvious rubbish ones on the way back to Wellington). Most of them were taken by my friend's 14-year-old daughter. I handed my camera to her as she takes bloody good photographs and is 6ft 3in tall, so is better at getting photos over the top of other people than me due to her height. She took most of my photographs at Classic Fighters at Omaka last year too, when she was 13, which meant I could just kick-back and enjoy the airshow, yet still end up with a huge number of awesome photos. Sounds like you were there very much the same time we went thru. You didn't end up parked close to a dark red Toyota Rav4 ? That was us and I saw a tall girl of about 14 taking pictures with the group we were sitting next to!! |
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gebbw
Pilot Officer
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Post by gebbw on Apr 1, 2012 21:15:14 GMT 12
The cockeyed decision to cancel the AL Spitfire display but allow Hoons in a Holden/Falcons to perform was done by the show committee [whoever] who were clearly on something very mind-bending an illegal. ! hmm, yeah maybe, but I like to think of the Holden vs Ford race on the runway thing as a dramatic example how sad V8 cars really are. Gimmie a RR Merlin any day!!!! V8 Petrol Heads, eat your heart out. Likewise the two Hueys dropping "accidently" red and blue cars was childish and dated beyond belief! Lame it might be to us, but my 11 year old thought it was the Bees Knees!! |
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 1, 2012 21:15:31 GMT 12
It has all happened before (the HUGE traffic stuff-up at a RNZAF anniversary airshow at Ohakea). There are plenty of accounts about what occured at the 21st anniversary airshow at Ohakea in 1958. I guess the RNZAF should have learnt from that one, eh? |
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Post by phil82 on Apr 1, 2012 21:15:44 GMT 12
They should of had the airshow in auckland You have to be joking! Would that be the Auckland which until directed by the Government had eight city councils, eight Chief Executives, and thousands of bludging councilors for a population a fifth the of the size of Melbourne, and which couldn't organise a piss-up in an brewery? |
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Post by phil82 on Apr 1, 2012 21:19:00 GMT 12
It has all happened before (the HUGE traffic stuff-up at a RNZAF anniversary airshow at Ohakea). There are plenty of accounts about what occured at the 21st anniversary airshow at Ohakea in 1958. I guess the RNZAF should have learnt from that one, eh? Did you read this thread? The RNZAF was not responsible for traffic management! |
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Post by saratoga on Apr 1, 2012 21:19:54 GMT 12
I have not read the thread through It might be a good idea to do so ;D You would learn, for example; That Traffic Management was not the fault of the RNZAF The cockeyed decision to cancel the AL Spitfire display but allow Hoons in a Holden/Falcons to perform was done by the show committee [whoever] who were clearly on something very mind-bending an illegal. Likewise the two Hueys dropping "accidently" red and blue cars was childish and dated beyond belief! Noted , but this airshow was for/by the RNZAF. As they chose to contract out some vital elements doesn't mean they can wipe their hands off it. Its the RNZAF that will be remembered for the 'show' not some incompetent (nameless) contractor/organiser. And the taxpayer paid for the lot...wonder if i can claim petrol money back? |
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display, sounded like he put one on noise wise on arrival back in Hamilton.
