|
|
Post by ngatimozart on May 29, 2013 18:57:25 GMT 12
Do you mean the A321 is a competitor to the 757 in military terms? Because I always thought of the A321 as a competitor to the later Boeing 737 series. Yes and Yes. As far as I am aware the RNZAF is / was the only military to convert the B757 to their present configuration as the B757 200 M Combi. |
|
|
|
Post by richard1098 on May 29, 2013 19:34:17 GMT 12
Just raising this for the sake of discussion, but why should the RNZAF use its budget to fund the acquisition of a civil, rather than military aircraft. Surely there are plenty of aircraft available for charter as required, or even requisition should a "hot" situation ever arise. But it won't be able to quickly get its hands on C-130Js or A400Ms if strategic circumstances ever change for the worse.
|
|
|
|
Post by suthg on May 29, 2013 19:56:41 GMT 12
It was probably mixing and matching the need to transfer over 160 people in flights to McMurdo Sound (4000 per season) as well as military logistics (freight capability) as well as the Hercs - with a fleet of Hercs continuing for a long while yet (replacements and/or further upgrades). rnzaf.proboards.com/post/190684 NB no outside reference link for this statement. I assume that means the C130H's we have. Perhaps we get the RAAF to shift our NH90's when and where we need to. Both likely to be going to the same theatre. |
|
|
|
Post by ErrolC on May 29, 2013 21:06:33 GMT 12
By the way, Airbus have just announced the updated C295W (with winglets and different engine settings)
AEW version
|
|
|
|
Post by Ykato on May 30, 2013 18:15:09 GMT 12
A400M and C295W to be pitched to NZ The eventual retirement of the RNZAF’s C-130Hs will see Airbus Military pitch the A400M and newly-launched C295W to the New Zealand government. Announced at its annual briefing to trade media, Airbus Military said while it views New Zealand as a longer-term proposition, it is confident the two aircraft could fill the gap to be left by the ultimate retirement of the RNZAF’s five C-130Hs and indeed enhance the nation’s airlift capabilities. Full Story Here: australianaviation.com.au/2013/05/a400m-and-c295w-to-be-pitched-to-nz/ |
|
|
|
Post by ngatimozart on May 30, 2013 20:08:13 GMT 12
|
|
|
|
Post by beagle on May 30, 2013 20:59:33 GMT 12
YAY about time. They need to bring them both down for a bit of a demonstration tour.
|
|
|
|
Post by nige on May 30, 2013 22:51:08 GMT 12
Ok Boeing and LM, maybe you need to make some counter offers quick-smart! Perhaps with a maintenance deal with SAFE (for regional users) chucked in as a sweetner. Nothing like a bit of competition to keep 'em all honest eh  |
|
|
|
Post by beagle on May 31, 2013 9:04:40 GMT 12
boeing and LM have nothing to offer us that we need.
|
|
|
|
Post by nige on May 31, 2013 18:45:37 GMT 12
Disagree, how often will NZDF use a fully laden A400? Occassionally to shift equipment into theatre or to exercises?
The C-130H/J would be the main NZDF workhorse for this wider region.
But NZDF will occassionally need heavy lift - it would make more sense to buy 1x C-17 and integrate it into the ADF. It would be cheaper than a fleet of A400's.
But yes we need C295 (or C27) for Andover type roles.
|
|
|
|
Post by beagle on May 31, 2013 18:55:40 GMT 12
How often do you have all your car seats filled with people.
How often do you have all elements on your stove top going at once.
yes sometimes it is not going to be filled up.
To a civillian accountant, they would pull their hair out.
I have spent 2 postings on 40 Sqn and have witnessed them chokka filled quite a bit.
|
|
|
|
Post by ngatimozart on May 31, 2013 19:08:34 GMT 12
Seems like the C130's will be around for a while. Now pushed to 2025 for retirement. The A400 will be a mature project by then. Who says that they have been pushed out to 2025 for retirement? Do you have a source for this statement. The govt know that if they push the C130 replacement out to 2025 they are going to create a myriad of capability and finance issues. That brings them into the Orion, Canterbury, OPV, IPV and Frigate replacement windows, all expensive platforms. The Herc replacement as slated to start in 2018andnothing has been published to state any different. |
|
|
|
Post by ngatimozart on May 31, 2013 19:16:46 GMT 12
Disagree, how often will NZDF use a fully laden A400? Occassionally to shift equipment into theatre or to exercises? The C-130H/J would be the main NZDF workhorse for this wider region. But NZDF will occassionally need heavy lift - it would make more sense to buy 1x C-17 and integrate it into the ADF. It would be cheaper than a fleet of A400's. But yes we need C295 (or C27) for Andover type roles. We do not have a need for the type of capability that the C17 offers and we could not justify the expenditure. One C17 on its own would not provide enough capability. Integration with the ADF would create issues both for them but more for us. The procurement of the A400 by NZDF would be of more use to the ADF than NZDF acquiring one or two C17s. I am sure this has been discussed earlier in this thread so I suggest you have a read back through. |
|
|
|
Post by beagle on May 31, 2013 19:17:24 GMT 12
OPV IPV should last longer than that  ? From previous experience regards naval ships. Take the fruit salad carrier out of that list though. |
|
|
|
Post by beagle on May 31, 2013 19:20:59 GMT 12
How often do you have all your car seats filled with people. How often do you have all elements on your stove top going at once. yes sometimes it is not going to be filled up. To a civillian accountant, they would pull their hair out. I have spent 2 postings on 40 Sqn and have witnessed them chokka filled quite a bit. But have seen the old B727 go out empty expect for a certain forum member with a few tools and spare parts and seated close to the galley. |
|
|
|
Post by ngatimozart on May 31, 2013 19:23:49 GMT 12
Just raising this for the sake of discussion, but why should the RNZAF use its budget to fund the acquisition of a civil, rather than military aircraft. Surely there are plenty of aircraft available for charter as required, or even requisition should a "hot" situation ever arise. But it won't be able to quickly get its hands on C-130Js or A400Ms if strategic circumstances ever change for the worse. Over the years need has been found to transport large numbers of pax by air and it has been found effective to do so in a pax aircraft. The RNZAF have operated the DC6, Hastings, B727 and B757. With the B757 they had it modified so that they could multirole it and by all accounts that has been successfull. By having your own aircraft you have the capability to operate at very short notice and you are not having to worry about other parties getting upset if you go into a hot zone. I think that is the one failing of the B757; a lack of a self protection suite which kept it out of Afghan. That was not done because of cost. |
|
|
|
Post by beagle on May 31, 2013 19:35:15 GMT 12
For the amount of money other bigger armed forces spend on various different aircraft to do all the different roles of the B757, I reckon it was by far the best value for money the MOD has spent in many years.
I think many other countries are quite envious of that aircraft and what roles it can perform for the little sum of monies.
It replaced the old vomet comet and more.
Yes, a self protection suite would have been nice too.
If the F16's had gone ahead, i reckon another 1 or 2 should have been purchased and 1-2 of them had hose reels fitted.
|
|
|
|
Post by ngatimozart on May 31, 2013 19:46:45 GMT 12
OPV IPV should last longer than that ? From previous experience regards naval ships. Take the fruit salad carrier out of that list though. They were built to civilian standard, not naval and the old IPCs only lasted 20 years. So that takes them to around the end of the 2020s. I would like to see a proper LPD (Landing Platform Dock) replacing Canterbury sooner because basically Canterbury is IMHO not fit for purpose. It can only operate in sea states that are basically flat. It needs a port to unload. Having said that it is ok for baby steps in amphib ops. For instance if we had to do an opposed landing in Fiji we'd have to secure a port first in order to put our NZLAVs ashore. With an LPD and zppropriate landing craft we could put them straight on beach and not worry about the port. I think the OPVs are a good idea but they need to have better capabilities and that comes with expense. You can get weapons & capability modules that can be transferred between vessels quickly and easily. It's basically plug and play. So you have a basic 76mm gun that can fire enhanced and ELR rounds plus a couple of 30mm auto cannon mounts on board. Then you fit modules to suit missions, such as VLS ASROCs for ASW or VLS ESSM / Seasparrows for AA, VLS Penguins for ASuW or VLS Harpoons etc. But in the basic fit out they can do what the current OPVs do. I think three OPVs would be better and I would prefer four maybe five depending on the treat levels. They would be good for chasing pirates. |
|
|
|
Post by beagle on May 31, 2013 19:48:47 GMT 12
So you reckon not replace frigates with another frigate
|
|
|
|
Post by ngatimozart on May 31, 2013 19:56:55 GMT 12
For the amount of money other bigger armed forces spend on various different aircraft to do all the different roles of the B757, I reckon it was by far the best value for money the MOD has spent in many years. I think many other countries are quite envious of that aircraft and what roles it can perform for the little sum of monies. It replaced the old vomet comet and more. Yes, a self protection suite would have been nice too. If the F16's had gone ahead, i reckon another 1 or 2 should have been purchased and 1-2 of them had hose reels fitted. Would have been a good idea. I note that Airbus Military are touting an AAR capability for the A400 and that also includes ability to put a large tank in aircraft hold. That would be a good capability for NZDF to have in more ways than one. If at some stage we added long dongs to the NH90s and any future transport and MPA aircraft would give us an extended capability. They'd have to put a larger food storage system in the MPA for 5 sqn but if the got the C295MPA 5 sqn be stuffed. No galley on it  I don't believe that the C295MPA meets all the the NZDF Maritime Patrol and ISR requirements inthat it doesn't have the range and at present the ISR and networking capabilities that NZDF want. However fitting a basic search radar to the C295 would be ideal for EEZ MPA and also fill the Andover role using the same aircraft. |
|
?