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Post by delticman on Nov 30, 2017 15:41:53 GMT 12
I am intrigued. Just been searching the on-line media to see what the visiting Kawasaki C-2 has been doing. It must be a stealth airlifter because it seems to be invisible. Something not mentioned in the brochures. Unfortunately just a sign of how relevant things that interest us are to the what passes for the media. Where is it now? Please tell me I just failed to find the story. It's a new world buddy, there has been a Royal Engagement. I would have thought the Dom Post might have had something this morning but no.
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Post by tbf25o4 on Dec 1, 2017 7:22:35 GMT 12
While out at Wellington airport on Wednesday 29th, I spotted a JSDF Kawasaki C2 parked at the RNZAF Air Movements terminal. A number of people were seen walking around the aircraft then it appeared to be closed up. Our worthy oriental friends on a promotion tour as a C130 replacement?
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Post by delticman on Dec 1, 2017 7:51:48 GMT 12
While at Wellington airport on Wednesday 29th, I spotted a Kawasaki C2 parked at the RNZAF Air Movements terminal. A number of people were seen walking around it. Our worthy Oriental friends on a promotion tour for the C130 replacement? Aviation News not invited?
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Dec 1, 2017 7:53:53 GMT 12
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chis73
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 86
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Post by chis73 on Dec 1, 2017 8:33:27 GMT 12
I am intrigued. Just been searching the on-line media to see what the visiting Kawasaki C-2 has been doing. It must be a stealth airlifter because it seems to be invisible. Something not mentioned in the brochures. Unfortunately just a sign of how relevant things that interest us are to the what passes for the media. Where is it now? Please tell me I just failed to find the story. Aussie Aviation has at least come to the party with an article on the C-2's stopovers in Australia (at RAAF bases Amberley & Richmond). australianaviation.com.au/2017/11/japanese-kawasaki-c-2-airlifter-makes-flying-visit/Another article worthy of note, on the C-130J, is in the latest (spring 2017) Line of Defence magazine ( link). Lockheed Martin are still pushing for the chimera that is the SC-130J (which apparently will be able to re-role to do the tactical transport role as well - yeah right). Given the recent speeches from Grant Robertson on the missing $20b defence funding ( link), my main worry is we will get another stupid 'value for money' decision. A better link on the situation is here from Politik's Richard Harman (but limited to a certain number views unless you sign up). National it seems were keen on the P-8, just not prepared to pay for them - our option expires in March 2018! To my mind, the sensible way to go is to split airlift into two separate categories, strategic and tactical, with separate fleets. We need something the size of an A400M or C-2 to do the Antarctic run and to move the NH90s. Preferably a minimum of 3 aircraft. Tactical probably should be C-130 size, due to the 1000nm first step to our nearest neighbours in the Pacific and the effect that has on the allowable loads. If we need something smaller for internal duties (a twin turboprop), then perhaps that could do double-duty as a maritime surveillance aircraft and be funded from the FASC budget, rather than from the FAMC one. Hopefully it would have a rear cargo ramp (it would be disappointing for something like a Kingair to have to take on this role) That leaves international VIP, which you could contract out to Air NZ, or if we pick the C-2 (& feasibly the P-1), look to also acquire an ex-JASDF KC-767J (they are looking to adopt the KC-46 in the near future). The KC767J shares similar engines to the C-2 (the GE CF6). Air-to-air refuelling would be a very useful capability given the vast SAR zone we are supposed to cover and would also be helpful for Antarctic logistics.
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Post by ErrolC on Dec 1, 2017 8:44:36 GMT 12
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Dec 1, 2017 18:38:35 GMT 12
That fuselage profile looks like a giant aerofoil
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Post by atea on Dec 1, 2017 19:45:14 GMT 12
Seems like it has spent more time in Australia. Obviously no bites here..............
I don't have much faith in anything happening with either the Transport Fleet Replacement or the P3 Replacement anytime soon.
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Post by vansvilla on Dec 1, 2017 21:37:12 GMT 12
Just thinking out loud, is a T tail going to prevent them using any of the existing hangars.I suspect so. Will only be able to nose them in.
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Post by delticman on Dec 1, 2017 21:47:43 GMT 12
Just thinking out loud, is a T tail going to prevent them using any of the existing hangars.I suspect so. Will only be able to nose them in. They will just build bigger hangars at Ohakea.
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Post by madmac on Dec 2, 2017 13:19:16 GMT 12
Hmmm possibility the best way to address the VIP transport issue is to just adjust the P3 replacement program (assuming we are buying a minimum of 5 airframes) by getting an extra airframe with no mission avionics & fitting it with seats (probably would half the price), it could then also be operated as a dedicated circuit training aircraft.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 2, 2017 13:37:33 GMT 12
Just thinking out loud, is a T tail going to prevent them using any of the existing hangars.I suspect so. Will only be able to nose them in. The max height of the aircraft in questions are: C-130H = 11.6 m C-130J = 11.84 m A400M = 14.7 m C-2 = 14.2 m KC-390 = 11.43 m In all cases apart from perhaps the C-130J some sort of modification to the hangars will be needed, if not new hangars. Maybe they can redesign the window panel on the front of the hangars with a wider slot for the T-tails. (photo sourced from Pioneer Energy's site)
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Post by joey05 on Dec 2, 2017 20:24:57 GMT 12
They have to take the tails off the C130H to get them into 4 hangar at Woodbourne for deeper maintenance anyway!
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Post by delticman on Dec 2, 2017 21:36:46 GMT 12
They have to take the tails off the C130H to get them into 4 hangar at Woodbourne for deeper maintenance anyway! Whatever way they go, it will be some franchise to look after them.
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Post by kiwiredley on Dec 3, 2017 7:58:28 GMT 12
I used to work there and they had to take the fin of the C130 and jack it outside the hangar,remove the wheels, and then mount the aircraft on a trestle and tow it in sideways to carry out the group servicings. I have been told since I left that the American's were at one stage were interested in Safair taking over the servicing of the Antartic C130 fleet from Air New Zealand Christchurh, but after visiting Woodbourne they said that there was no way their aircraft could be serviced there because the system of putting the aircraft into the hangar was not Lockheed approved and as well the hangar was not fire protected to the standard they required.
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Post by kiwiredley on Dec 3, 2017 8:09:16 GMT 12
Sorry guys for the repeats but I am working here in Saudia Arabia and our net here is a sometimes a little erratic. I am interested to see what the Airforce will get for the transport fleet. I like the A400m and a mix with say the 295 but the C2 looks nice as well.
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Post by avmkiwi on Dec 4, 2017 16:39:24 GMT 12
The pending decision on the replacement of the rnzaf transport fleet is now moving into a more when than if stage and I have been watching this closely for about five years and this is my conclusion.The new aircraft chosen are not going to be dictated by internet experts(like myself) but by politicians and government committees and hopefully the Air Force will get a say in what is truly going to fit the foreseeable requirements and expectations.For a county like New Zealand it's a hard fit ,a regional military power which is expected and relied on by its smaller somewhat less off neighbors to provide relief and support in all manor of situations,New Zealand is also an ally to larger countries with an expectation of support in larger operations globally so where do we start.Anyone following this thread would be well versed by now in all the manufactures from all around the world ready to pitch their products at the decision makers/ Air Force and what is on offer but I believe the fist consideration is going to be based on price,not just purchase price but operating costs ,through life costs ,training costs,conversion costs ,ground support and equipment cost and I'm sure there's more.The next consideration should be support.For some of the manufacturers the Air Force has already had experience in dealing with notably Lockheed( now a subsidiary of Boeing) after decades of p3 and c130 operations for some others Kawasaki heavy industry and Embraer not so much ,Airbus though the Nh 90 ,I'm not taking into consideration the Russians as this is just not going to happen,either is second hand c17s.There seems to be three main requirements in choosing an new transport aircraft 1- being able to reach and return from New Zealand scientific bases in Antartica 2- being able to transport the Nh 90 3- carry the armies chosen armoured vehicles.now I'm not sure if these are official prerequisites as no tender has been posted by government or if these are the hopes and dreams of internet experts( like myself) but I'm pretty sure that one aircraft type is not going to achieve these things as well as the myriad of other tasks expected of the chosen aircraft not forgetting the primary role as a tactical transport ( yes low flying and landing on remote,short ,dirt air strips common in the pacific.so where do we go from here, I'm not sure but it is massive once in a generation decision that should not be swayed by manufacturers or politicians looking for the cheapest way out of a situation that should have been sorted before this point ,look forward to any feedback .
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Post by foxcover on Dec 4, 2017 21:33:23 GMT 12
Only an A400M/C295W mix would provide the capability you are talking about. C130J and KC390 too small to carry helicopters and IFV’s, and not great for Antarctic. 3 A400’s and 3 C295’s would do nicely. 1 C40 Clipper to go with the 4 P8’s would be job done, Not sure the money is there for such wishful thinking though.
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Post by saratoga on Dec 4, 2017 22:08:38 GMT 12
I had to google to find out what a C40 was.I thought suggesting the 'Clipper', you were talking flying boats!...mm,now theres an idea due for ressurgence..
I recently flew in a Boeing 717 (google was my friend,again!),i'm sure it was the bastard child of a DC-9..Douglas..Boeing ..I must be getting old.
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Post by avmkiwi on Dec 4, 2017 22:59:18 GMT 12
Yes an A400,c295 would be a great result and may well be a realistic solution,I'm sure that airbus has sunk enough money into the A400 development to let it not reach it's full potential and slow sales can only be a good thing in negotiations.and the c295 is well and truly a proven aircraft in various countries around the world,good call.
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