Victoria Crosses stolen from Waiouru museum

[phil]

Just seen this:

LATEST: Charles Upham's Victoria Cross and bar is among prestigious military medals stolen from the Waiouru Army Museum.

Nine Victoria Crosses, two George Crosses and other medals were stolen in the theft early today.

Museum staff discovered that several displays had been broken into, after the alarm was activated in an annex to the building sometime between midnight and 6am.

Chief of Army Major General Lou Gardiner told a press conference this afternoon that while a definitive list of the stolen medals was not available, the Victoria Cross for New Zealand medal awarded to Corporal Willie Apiata VC was not among the missing medals.

'Their theft is a theft from New Zealand and as such is a serious crime calling for the co-operation of all New Zealanders in their recovery.''

Museum executive trustee Don McIver said combined the medals could fetch "millions".

Major General Gardiner would not speculate on whether they were stolen to order, but said their value was in "what they symbolised".

Customs had been notified and had issued a border alert.

Ruapehu police area commander Steve Mastrovich said the burglary appeared to be well-planned.

"They broke in round the back through the fire escape and targeted the Alcove room where all the medals are kept and they took a select bunch of medals, particularly Victoria Crosses," he said.

"It doesn't look as if it was a spur of the moment thing."

He said it wasn't clear exactly what other medals had been taken as the crime scene had been secured until a forensics team could arrive.

"It was quite a stunning sort of offence really. It's quite amazing that anybody would target property like that, especially when you consider what the medals signify."

Police are asking anyone with information to call 0800 349 0606.

Medals taken include:

* Samuel Frickleton, VC -- WW1

* Leslie Andrew, VC -- WW1

* Randolph Ridling, Albert Medal -- WW1

* Reginald Judson, VC, DCM, MM -- WW1

* John Grant, VC -- WW1

* Harry Laurent, VC -- WW1

* Jack Hinton, VC -- WW2

* Clive Hulme, VC -- WW2

* Keith Elliot, VC -- WW2

* Charles Upham, VC and Bar -- WW2

* David Russell, GC -- WW2

* Ken Hudson, GC.

With NZPA

I suppose it is probably a relatively easy target sitting out in the middle of nowhere.

I really hope they recover them quickly before they are whisked out of the country.

[Bruce]

how sucky is that? I'm sure the museum took reasonable precautions, but you generally would assume common decency and respect would mean you wouldnt have to lock them up like Fort Knox. Hope they nail the beggers that took em.

[skyhawkdon]

What an absolute disgrace! Almost sounds like an inside job. I hope the RNZAF Museum has a better security system.

[flyjoe180]

There appears to be a parallel thread running here www.rnzaf.proboards43.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1196568087

And yes, it does suck.

[corsair67]

Well, you'd be thinking twice about donating to the Army Museum now, wouldn't you?

[Dave Homewood]

As I mentioned on the other thread:

It is outragious that anyone would do this. They have taken some of New Zealand's National Treasures. I am sure a lot of questions over security there will be asked, and as Colin states, why the originals themselves were on public display. It's so sad as I doubt the police will ever find them.

From today's NZ Herald front page


Don wrote

I hope the RNZAF Museum has a better security system.

My understanding is that the Victoria Crosses on display at Wigram are in fact replicas, the real things are not on public display, so I'm told. (In fact some of the RNZAF related ones are not actually held by that museum). However they must be now rechecking their own security after this breach, as must other museums such as Auckland War Memorial, where James Ward's VC is held currently.

Mum said to me that the museum should have insurance, but I seriously wonder if national museums like Wigram and Waiouru, who hold millions of dollars worth of displays and run on a shoestring, would actually be able to pay for insurance to cover everything. Does anyone know? I mean Wigram's aircraft collection alone must be worth upwards of NZ$25million or more I'd estimate, on the warbird market. And then all the priceless knick knacks in the cases such as Kingsford Smith's flying helmet form the first Tasman crossing, etc must all mount up to a fair wallop of value. I'd hate to think what an annual contents insurance premium would amount to. Scary to think about it.

[corsair67]

Insurance is a great thing, but it can never replace these priceless NZ heritage items.

The only good thing about this whole fiasco is that the thieves will probably have a hard time selling these medals;and really if you're a collector, what's the point of having Charles Upham's medals if you can't ever tell anyone you have them in your collection?

Someone needs kicking up the butt over this whole disaster, especially when they say that "the alarm was activated sometime between midnight and 6am" - what sort of useless security do they have??

[Dave Homewood]

I think it might be useless reporting or detective work, because another report states the alarm rang at 1.10am and the guard was there within minutes but they'd fled.

It was pointed out to me that the report on this page does say they were insured, but what amount for I don't know.

I agree having a priceless and renowned stolen item must be a lonely gamble.

I wonder if they should check under Tama Iti's bed?

[corsair67]

I think it might be useless reporting or detective work, because another report states the alarm rang at 1.10am and the guard was there within minutes but they'd fled.

Yeah, we've had security guards like that too, who swear black and blue they attended the alarm within minutes of it going off, when the reality is more like 30 mins - 1 hour!

[phil82]

admin said:

I think it might be useless reporting or detective work, because another report states the alarm rang at 1.10am and the guard was there within minutes but they'd fled.

It was pointed out to me that the report on this page does say they were insured, but what amount for I don't know.

I agree having a priceless and renowned stolen item must be a lonely gamble.

I wonder if they should check under Tama Iti's bed?

Well.............

From the Homer Simpson School of Useless Comments...the Chief of Army said "Perhaps we should be thinking about replicas"?

[corsair67]

From the Homer Simpson School of Useless Comments...the Chief of Army said "Perhaps we should be thinking about replicas"?

Geez, give that man a brain!

[phil]

Well they are going to have to think abut replicas now, aren't they?

[corsair67]

The Upham daughters must be cranky, considering the amount of flak the copped when they wanted to sell Charles' medals a few years ago - so they gave them to the Army Museum for safe keeping!!!!

[lesterpk]

Sorry Corsair, they sold the medals to a British museum who loaned them back to NZ for 999 years.
Les.

[corsair67]

Thanks Les, I wasn't aware that's what happened. It was all in the news for awhile, then I didn't hear anymore about it, but I thought I'd heard it was the Upham sisters who'd given the medals to the Army Museum for safe keeping.

The British Museum must be really cranky then! How embarrassing this all is.

Does anyone think the NZ Police will be able to solve this one?

[flyjoe180]

Political reaction to stolen medals
Tue, 04 Dec 2007 06:04a.m.

The National Party wants the Government to order a review of security at all the military museums holding war medals.

Defence Spokesman Wayne Mapp says the theft of 100 medals from the Army Museum at Waiouru, including the VC and bar awarded to World War 2 hero Charles Upham, makes a full-scale review essential.

"The Government must also ensure security at the Wigram Air Force Museum and the Navy Museum at Devonport is absolutely sound," he said last night.

"Both are home to a number of valuable medals which must not be put at risk."

Prime Minister Helen Clark has described the theft as "distressing to the nation" and says New Zealand has the means under international law to get them back if they turn up in another country.

Clark said the Protected Objects Act, passed by Parliament last year, had allowed New Zealand to become a party to two international conventions which outlawed the import, export or change of ownership of stolen cultural items like the medals.

"If these medals turn up offshore...we do have the legal means to get them returned here which we didn't have in the past," she said.

Clark, who is also Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage, initiated the Protected Objects Act herself after being appalled by the theft of treasures from other countries including Iraq.

She said it would be very difficult for anyone to sell the medals offshore, but that did not mean they might be moved out the country.

"It's not unknown for property of this kind to be stolen to order for very wealthy recluses who never show the medals again," she said.

"My best guess would be that this is a steal-to-order theft."


www.tv3.co.nz/News/Story/tabid/209/articleID/40693/cat/41/Default.aspx

[flyjoe180]

Prime Minister Helen Clark has cautiously welcomed a $200,000 reward for the return of about 100 war medals stolen in the Waiouru War Museum heist at the weekend.
Reward offered for stolen medals


Lord Michael Ashcroft, owner of the world's largest collection of more than 40 Victoria Crosses, today said he was shocked by the theft of the medals and offered a $200,000 award for information leading to their return.

Miss Clark today said the offer was generous, but she would need to take police advice on it.

"One of the issues that always arises is whether you should encourage the posting of such offers because it could in the worst of circumstances be an incentive to theft," she told reporters.

"On the other hand the offer is obviously made on very good faith and I'd like to get police advice on that."

Defence Minister Phil Goff said he had asked police to process and implement the offer, but most New Zealanders would not need the money as motivation.

"For most New Zealanders that reward won't be necessary. They will provide the information if they know anything that will help the police," he told reporters.

"But for some people that may be the incentive that is required especially if there is any connection with the offenders so we've thanked him for that offer."

Mr Goff again appealed for anyone with information to come forward.

National has called for security at military museums to be reviewed, but Mr Goff said that was already happening.

He said he had asked the Defence Force to make sure it was following best practice from around the world in regard to its security arrangements.

But he said he was not in favour of showing replicas as a security measure.

"What New Zealanders want to see is not a replica of a medal, but the real thing.

"It would be a shame if this sort of incident meant we had to keep the real medals in vaults where they would never be seen. That would defeat the purpose."

He reiterated that he believed the heist, which took just four minutes, was a professional job, possibly to fill an overseas order.

POLICE TO QUESTION EVERYONE IN WAIOURU

Inspector Steve Mastrovich of Ruapehu said more than 20 officers were in Waiouru yesterday, with more staff to be drafted in today.

Police would try to talk to everyone in Waiouru, about 500 people.

Medal dealers and collectors everywhere would be alerted to Sunday's theft.

A medal expert at Dunbar Sloane Auctions said the theft was one of the largest of its kind in the world. He estimated the Victoria Crosses alone would have a market value of more than $5 million.

VC's had sold in recent years for about $500,000 and Charles Upham's unique double VC would be worth far more than that.

But the stolen medals would be impossible to sell on the open market because there were so few collectors and everybody knew who they were.

Michael Maxton, of Britain's Ashcroft Trust and an expert on the Victoria Cross, speculated the medals were likely to be held for ransom.

The trust cares for a tenth of the 1357 VCs awarded since 1856.

Dr Harper said there was still a black market for medals - "some people have a lot of money and not all have the ethics which preclude them from buying something stolen".

Army Museum executive trustee Don McIvor said a reward was not being offered at this stage but an incentive could be considered later.

The Defence Force's insurance covered the museum and the insurer had been contacted, he said.

New Zealand's newest VC recipient, Corporal Willie Apiata, said the theft was distressing. He urged the public to help police recover them.

"The families of those who were awarded the missing medals have been robbed of a personal connection to their loved ones and New Zealand has been robbed of the link," he said.


www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4310848a10.html

[turboNZ]

They were interviewing the Museum curator on TV3 News last night when there was an enormous explosion that startled them (curator included) and shook the windows of the Museum (you could see it).

Apparently, it was the army detonating time-expired ammunition, but they forgot to tell people !!!!

[corsair67]

From The Australian.


Black market exists for stolen VCs
Simon Kearney | December 05, 2007.


ONE of New Zealand's leading experts on the lives of its Victoria Cross-winning soldiers has warned there is a black market ready to receive a haul of nine VCs stolen from a museum south of Auckland.

Glyn Harper, the director of the Centre for Defence Studies at Massey University, said markets did exist for stolen medals.

"There are people whose life revolves around collecting these things and they do come up for auction," he said.

"These medals, however, will never be sold publicly. There is still a black market."

The world's biggest collector of VCs, English lord Michael Ashcroft, has offered a $NZ200,000 ($174,500) reward for the return of the medals as police begin to interview every resident of the army town of Waiouru, where the stolen medals were housed.

Lord Ashcroft - who has 140 VCs in his collection - estimated the prize medal among those stolen, the Captain Charles Upham cross and bar, was worth about $2.5million, with the other VCs worth more than $5million.

New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark has speculated the four-minute theft on Sunday morning was a professional operation to fill an order.

She said the theft had been "surgically executed".

Australian War Memorial heraldry curator Nick Fletcher, who is responsible for Australia's national collection of 61 VCs, said the Upham VC was one of only three in existence with a bar, which means the medal has been awarded twice.

He said it was particularly noteworthy because the other two were awarded to medics and Captain Upham was the only fighting soldier to receive the bravery award twice.

Captain Upham was awarded his first VC in 1941 and his second in 1942. Lord Ashcroft described it during a radio interview yesterday as the "Holy Grail" of Victoria Crosses.

The thieves stole as many as 100 medals during the raid.

Police, who were yesterday still inspecting security camera footage, said they planned to interview all 500 residents of Waiouru. Interpol and the country's border security agencies have been alerted.

Mr Fletcher said the thefts had put medal collectors on guard about the security of their collections.

Victoria Crosses rarely surface at auction in Australia. Two VCs auctioned last year, including the final VC from Gallipoli which was purchased by Seven Network owner Kerry Stokes for about $1.2million and donated to the Australian War Memorial.

Additional reporting: NZPA

[agalbraith]

I think this is all terribly sad, especially for NZ History.

Although I cringe at the thought, I could imagine there are sick people out there who would love to buy them on the black market and not publicly. I hate the thought that they are possibly going to end up displayed on some loosers fancy office wall where no one will ever get to reflect on and appreciate their true worth to a nation.

I wasnt going to post on this thread as it really irks me what has happened here and I didnt want to get on my soap box......what is the world coming to??? Greed I suppose......

I was going wasnt I??

Rant off................................8^(