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Post by skyhawkdon on Jan 27, 2012 14:11:29 GMT 12
nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/12738914/defence-force-scrapping-military-bands/Newstalk ZB
January 27, 2012, 2:32 pm
Our territorial soldiers may soon be marching without a tune.
The Defence Force is proposing scrapping seven of its 10 military bands as part of cost-cutting measures.
It's suggesting keeping just three - one for each of the main arms - the Navy, Army and Air Force.
The bands which may be scrapped are part of the part-time territorial force units.They are really scrapping the bottom of the barrel now for savings!
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Post by flyjoe180 on Jan 27, 2012 15:01:21 GMT 12
nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/12738914/defence-force-scrapping-military-bands/Newstalk ZB
January 27, 2012, 2:32 pm
Our territorial soldiers may soon be marching without a tune.
The Defence Force is proposing scrapping seven of its 10 military bands as part of cost-cutting measures.
It's suggesting keeping just three - one for each of the main arms - the Navy, Army and Air Force.
The bands which may be scrapped are part of the part-time territorial force units.They are really scrapping the bottom of the barrel now for savings! My thoughts too. This is quite disappointing news, if things have got that bad then the Government really needs to step up and tell the NZ public. Really, how much money will scrapping bands save? |
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Post by strikemaster on Jan 27, 2012 15:18:42 GMT 12
At least they aren't spending it like its going out of fashion, like the US.
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Post by luke6745 on Jan 27, 2012 16:59:26 GMT 12
Cost cutting could silence Defence Force bandsSeven of the country's 10 Defence Force bands could soon be axed as a cost cutting measure. Those threatened with the chop - in a proposal now under discussion - were the various part-time territorial bands. Defence spokesman John Gordon said the plan would retain the regular force army band, based at Burnham, the air force band based in Wellington and the navy band based at Devonport, Auckland. They were all manned by full-time bandsmen and women. The aim was to cut $900,000 from the $5.9 million spend annually on military bands. A decision on the cuts was expected to be made at the end of March. Vice Chief of Defence Force Rear Admiral Jack Steer said the reforms came out of the Defence White Paper and a value for money review. "It is envisaged that the proposed changes will delivery long term efficiency gains, optimise the use of NZDF musicians across New Zealand and the reduced expenditure will increase funding available for front-line activities." - © Fairfax NZ News www.stuff.co.nz/national/6326211/Cost-cutting-could-silence-Defence-Force-bands
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Post by luke6745 on Jan 27, 2012 17:01:10 GMT 12
Like $900000 is going to makes two shits of a difference.
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Post by Luther Moore on Jan 27, 2012 17:05:12 GMT 12
I hope they dont cut the band that does the Military Tattoo!
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Post by luke6745 on Jan 27, 2012 17:51:20 GMT 12
I hope they dont cut the band that does the Military Tattoo! That's the Army band, which isn't under the axe. It would be a great shame to lose the territorial bands, the 7th Battalion band were fantastic at the ANZAC Day service at St Pauls Cathedral in Wellington last year. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 27, 2012 22:22:23 GMT 12
I have merged the two threads that were running on this forum.
The service bands are very good but realistically if money is tight and they are wasting $5.9 million every year that could be spent operationally, than why do they still have these bands? They are merely windowdressing and seldom get seen by the average service person, and usually only on a parade which is also largely a waste of money and time.
How does the $5.9 million per annum actually get spent? It can't all be on uniforms, instruments and transport and as far as I'm aware only the Army Band is full time. Most of the bands are territorial. It seems a hell of a lot of money that could go into flying hours or operational soldiers or sailors, etc.
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Post by luke6745 on Jan 27, 2012 22:45:52 GMT 12
I have merged the two threads that were running on this forum. The service bands are very good but realistically if money is tight and they are wasting $5.9 million every year that could be spent operationally, than why do they still have these bands? They are merely windowdressing and seldom get seen by the average service person, and usually only on a parade which is also largely a waste of money and time. How does the $5.9 million per annum actually get spent? It can't all be on uniforms, instruments and transport and as far as I'm aware only the Army Band is full time. Most of the bands are territorial. It seems a hell of a lot of money that could go into flying hours or operational soldiers or sailors, etc. The issue here isn't about the $5.9million spent on the regular bands, it's scraping the bottom of the barrel by needlessly getting rid of volunteer bands to save what? A measly $900000. As I said in my uniform thread, getting rid of the "cosmetics" of the military to save money is a waste of time because all it does is destroy traditions and you end up with a boring and unappealing military in the public eye. I'd much rather turn the regular bands into reserve ones until such a time where the defence budget could be raised. It would certainly save a lot more money than getting rid of ones which are already reserve bands. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 27, 2012 23:16:05 GMT 12
We've had a boring, unappealing military for a long time. Probably since about 2001 if not before then. Sadly most people wrongly seem to think our military is a joke these days. The band being there or not being there will not change that attitude.
The Central Band of the RNZAF is already Territorial and always has been, the only period it was mobilised as regular force was WWII I believe. Most of their members are professional musicians in the NZSO and Wellington Symphony or Philharmic Orchestra, or whatever it's called down there. Only the conductor is full time I believe.
I have a feeling the Navy's main band is also Territorial, with only the Army Band as full time.
The bands have how many public outings per year? Very few. Their tours for public performances are scarce as hens teeth. And usually in small halls. And they do a couple of parades on bases and opening of Parliament and Waitangi Day type things. Are they really cost effective?
$5.9 million would be better spent on new kit for frontline troops in my opinion, no matter how much I think the bands are great and very professional, etc. I mean, how much does it cost per year for a town municipal brass band, or their pipe band, to run? No doubt nothing like $590,000 which is what these bands seem to get on average. Yet town bands are also voluntary, meet once a week to practice, have uniforms, do the odd gig, etc.
Sad to say these should have been cut from the NZDF budget long before other more essential services.
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Post by luke6745 on Jan 27, 2012 23:38:22 GMT 12
We've had a boring, unappealing military for a long time. Probably since about 2001 if not before then. Sadly most people wrongly seem to think our military is a joke these days. The band being there or not being there will not change that attitude. Getting rid of them certainly won't help that image either. Remember, all that is being saved here is $900000. How many flying hours are you going to get out of that? Bugger all. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 27, 2012 23:51:31 GMT 12
How many people might an Orion or helicopter rescue with those extra few hours? How many quake or cyclone victims might a Hercules relieve with those extra few hours?
How many members of the public does a band protect or defend? In fact annually how many people even get to see and hear them?
Priorities in time of monetary crisis must surely defer to the operational side of defence. In a perfect world all branches would be fully funded and equipped and the bands would happily play on. But we don't live there unfortunately.
At least when a military band is disbanded most of its members will be able to join other bands and carry on ok, unlike many other specialists in the military who've already lost their jobs in budget cuts who have to start again with a new career path.
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 28, 2012 0:14:26 GMT 12
I am with Dave. I never heard of these bands during my time.
We had the RNZAF band and the Base bands... that was enough for the few times you had to march about the place.
Without knowing more about it I am guessing the cost cutting may just be looking at an area not previously affected.
What did the RNZAF Territorial band actually do ? Do you know Luke ?
I really have never heard of it....
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Post by luke6745 on Jan 28, 2012 0:28:37 GMT 12
I am with Dave. I never heard of these bands during my time. We had the RNZAF band and the Base bands... that was enough for the few times you had to march about the place. Without knowing more about it I am guessing the cost cutting may just be looking at an area not previously affected. What did the RNZAF Territorial band actually do ? Do you know Luke ? I really have never heard of it.... You've never heard of the RNZAF Central Band? It's the band the band that plays at every state event in Wellington. I see them quite often. They regularly play public concerts including the annual RNZAF Proms at the Michael Fowler Centre. They're also on parade at every ANZAC Day service at the National War Memorial on Buckle St. They are the best military band in the country IMO. |
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 28, 2012 1:09:43 GMT 12
That is the RNZAF Central Band, the one the article says they are keeping. Yes of course I know of them, they played at many of our functions.
It is the ones that are getting canned that I have never heard of... is it the Territorial members of the Base bands perhaps. I figured the Base bands came from staff on Base but that may not always be the case.
The Bandmaster of the Central band in my day was S/L Hanafin ? I thought. Anyway he was a regular and the rest of the band came from wherever in Wellington. That is the band we associate with the RNZAF. The Base bands provide the music for the bigger Base parades, - which is not often.
So if 7 out of 10 bands are receiving cuts it can only be the Base bands..... is this the case ?
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Post by luke6745 on Jan 28, 2012 1:21:46 GMT 12
Yes, the base bands are the ones being cut.
But what is puzzling me is that I count 11 bands in the entire NZDF.
NZ Army Band
RNZAF Central Band
RNZN Band
Band of the Royal Regiment of NZ Artillery
Pipes and Drums of the Wellington West Coast and Taranaki Regiment
Band of the Otago and Southland Regiment
Band of the Wellington (City of Wellington's Own) and Hawke's Bay Regiment
Band of the Canterbury, and Nelson-Marlborough and West Coast Regiment
RNZAF Ohakea Band
RNZAF Woodbourne Band
RNZAF Auckland Band
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Post by lesterpk on Jan 28, 2012 1:57:52 GMT 12
Good, get rid of them. $900K keeps 45 more servicemen in uniform per year.
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Post by luke6745 on Jan 28, 2012 2:26:39 GMT 12
Good, get rid of them. $900K keeps 45 more servicemen in uniform per year. More like 15-25. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 28, 2012 7:38:25 GMT 12
You have missed The Pipes and Drums of the Royal New Zealand Navy, based at Devonport.
Luke, you have missed my point. I know the article says the base bands are under threat but I am saying scrap the lot. $5.9 million is wasted money on mere bands, which add nothing to defence apart from a bit of puffery around Wellington ceremonies. Bases can still parade withough a band, we did it almost all the time. I think you only ever saw the Base Band turn up once a year for a parade, so what the hell is the point of that?
The money can be spent better on people who actually make a difference. No offence meant to the band members, but they simply don't.
Scrap all the bands a buy NZDF a CD player if you want music on parades. They have made oodles of recordings over the years.
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Post by lesterpk on Jan 28, 2012 12:16:58 GMT 12
Good, get rid of them. $900K keeps 45 more servicemen in uniform per year. More like 15-25. Nope, stated cost of keeping uniformed people over civvies was $20K a year. 900/20=45. |
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