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Post by baz62 on Mar 28, 2012 16:25:25 GMT 12
Bit like this one?  |
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Post by angelsonefive on Mar 28, 2012 20:16:24 GMT 12
"But the spinner looks huge and odd "
Is it a spinner ?
When I look at it carefully the object does not seem to be aligned with the thrust-line.
The plane is in a 3-point attitude and yet the object, whatever it is,
is horizontal.
It appears to me to be something on the side of the fuselage.
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Post by shorty on Mar 28, 2012 21:04:08 GMT 12
Having turned the Hudson photo and blown it up I tend to agree with that, it looks to have a helluva lot of downthrust if it is a spinner. could it be something painted on the nose?
Note also the fin flash continues under the tailplane which is a early rendition of the marking.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 28, 2012 21:17:11 GMT 12
Yes I too agree it is misaligned. Maybe it is not a spinner then.
And I too had noted the very early style fin flash, which also to me indicates it's unlikely to be RNZAF as I cannot think of any airfield that looked like that with mountains behind and a revetment with the early flash and roundel. It has to be RAAF in my opinion.
Matariki, have you any insight into what your grandfather was doing in the war or how this photo came to be in his possession? Maybe it was sent by a friend oversaes of course.
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Post by Tony on Mar 28, 2012 21:46:43 GMT 12
I agree that it is more likely something on the fuselage.
Certainly not a spinner IMHO.
Possibly that B-24 (if the photo is taken in NZ) could be 41-24027, the one that crashed at Whenuapai?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 28, 2012 21:54:54 GMT 12
Matariki, would you be able to do a larger scan of the Hudson with higher resolution, just zoomed in on the aircraft please for a better look at it?
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Post by angelsonefive on Mar 28, 2012 22:12:37 GMT 12
"It has to be RAAF in my opinion."
I am inclined to agree with that.
I looked at a couple of scale modellers' webpages that dealt with Hudson decals and the only decal set that had the fin flash extending below the tailplane was for an RAAF Hudson.
I also saw a profile of an RAAF Hudson that had a large letter 'P' in the same location as the 'G' on our subject aircraft.
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Post by errolmartyn on Mar 29, 2012 9:39:54 GMT 12
I agree that it is more likely something on the fuselage. Certainly not a spinner IMHO. Possibly that B-24 (if the photo is taken in NZ) could be 41-24027, the one that crashed at Whenuapai? The Whenuapai crash aircraft was actually a transport version of the B-24, in this instance a C-87 Liberator Express 41-24027/JD-4 - crewed by a United Air Lines crew operating under contract to the Air Transport Command. Difficult to be sure from the photo as to whether it's a B-24 or a C-87 - though the somewhat indistinct nose may suggest the latter? Errol |
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Post by chinapilot on Mar 29, 2012 18:39:53 GMT 12
I've got it my mind that it's an LB-30 [Liberator II] as it has an RAF serial number on the rear fuselarge coupled with the early insignia.
Some of this order was commandeered by the US at the outbreak of the Pacific War and LB-30s saw service in the PI/DEI flying many missions from bases on Java before ending up in Australia in early 1942 while retaining their RAF serial numbers.
It's logical to assume that whilst in Oz some flights were made to NZ.
A few were later converted to C-87 status and used by Corsairways.
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Post by matariki on Mar 29, 2012 19:04:26 GMT 12
Dave: I'll work on getting that photo scanned - scanner's not cooperating right now unfortunately.
As for my Uncle, he worked building and maintaining airfields up in the Islands - Fiji from memory.
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Post by chinapilot on Mar 29, 2012 19:19:14 GMT 12
Found a shot of an LB-30 in Java...  Ah ha...worked in Fiji - Hudson and LB-30/C-87/B-24 were most likely taken there. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 30, 2012 7:31:11 GMT 12
Thanks for the extra info. I would have thought that Nausori and Nadi would have had a lot more coconut platations and/or sugar cane around them than is seen in this Hudson photo. But it is possible it's in Fiji. That might well explain the oddball markings, in my reseach I have found it very difficult to find No. 4 (GR) Squadron Hudson photos and those I have founde are all nose-on so you don't see the fuselage and wing markings. It's possible they had local marking variations there though. It would be awesome if this was showing 4GR at Nausori or Nadi. Can anyone confirm the site as matching either airfield, by looking at the mountains?
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Post by nuuumannn on Mar 30, 2012 12:19:06 GMT 12
Just looking through a book on RAAF Hudsons I have, it's definitely an RAAF example. They had a wide range of different markings and locations of roundels and fin flashes before they went to the blue and white ring without the meat ball. To begin with the early squadron codes were represented by just the squadron letters, for example, 2 Sqn was coded 'B', 6 Sqn 'F' etc. I'm not sure which sqn had a 'G' as its code - no reference. Closer inspection of the pic reveals a yellow band around the roundel and a serial under the top row of nasal glasing.
Hudsons entered RAAF squadrons in March 1940, with deliveries of the first lot between January and June of that year. The first of the next lot, Mark IIIs, IIIas and IVs arrived in December 1941. followed by January 1942. Based on the extended carb intake on top of the engine cowl it looks like a either a Mk.III or IV.
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Post by davidd on Jul 30, 2012 22:17:31 GMT 12
I had already decided that the Hudson and B-24 photographs (and perhaps the Vincent one too?) were taken in Fiji as I was reading through this thread, so the revelation that the photographer had served in Fiji was good news to me! The background looks just like Nandi with those high, steep hills behind, and the lack of trees in this area was prominent in all the wartime photographs in an official photo album held at Wigram, which details the rebuilding of this aerodrome for the Americans in the early months of 1942. This just goes to show that coconut trees were NOT growing everywhere in the South Pacific, although they were common enough in many locations, especially where Lever Brothers or Burns & Philp had established plantations of them! The construction work at Nandi comprised permanent all-weather runways, all built by No. 2 Aerodrome Construction Squadron (RNZAF), the Civilian Construction Unit (CCU, New Zealand PWD) and the Fiji PWD.
The Hudson certainly appears to be a standard Mk. III (with Wright Cyclone engines, Hydromatic props) and the markings are not unusual for an early RNZAF aircraft. There are a few excellent shots of 4 Squadron Hudsons at Nandi in the album mentioned above, with markings very similar to that in the new photograph, and very large single-letter codes on fuselage. So although photos of 4 Sqdn a/c are rare, they are not extinct.
The B-24 in the photo looks like a fairly early one, particularly with the red central dot in the national stars, and it looks like an operational one - almost certainly a B-24D which was the main model produced in 1942. This was the model which equipped a squadron based briefly at Nandi in February 1942 under RNZAF control (I kid you not) when a Japanese task force, including carriers, was reported by coast watchers to the north to be approaching (it turned away before any strike force could be launched). Also many transport B-24s passed through Nandi, usually on the San Diego - Hawaii - Canton - Phoenix - Fiji - New Caledonia - Brisbane service, although some branched off to fly to Whenuapai. Some of these transports would be the aircraft flown by civilian contractors - United or Consairways, latter being a subsidiary of Consolidated Aircraft Corporation of San Diego - who were tasked with moving mail, passengers and urgent freight to the war fronts, or return to USA.
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 30, 2012 22:43:15 GMT 12
Great stuff there David, it is awesome to have this Hudson photo confirmed as Fiji.
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Post by davidd on Jul 31, 2012 23:52:23 GMT 12
Dave H,
Don't know whether I have CONFIRMED the Hudson shot as Fiji, but I am emphatically 99.9% certain! Also some photographs which appear in the "Air Pilot Manual of the Pacific Islands" produced by the Directorate of Intelligence Service, HQ of the Army Air Forces, Washington, DC, January 2 1943 (page 38 in particular), which includes a view of the Nandi area including the four airfields built on or near the shore of Nandi Bay (Nandi, Narewa-Nadi (auxiliary strip) and Narewa strip, as well as the nearby Nakavu strip (and all built by New Zealand sweat and machines, not the Americans!). Incidentally the first three fields mentioned were all linked by a taxi strip. The hills to the north look exactly like the ones in the background of the one on this thread. Apparently these mountains are called the Lautoka Sambeto range (maximum 2,025 feet), and are located some 3 miles NE of Nandi, with Mount Evans at 4,020 feet also nearby (one of the highest peaks in the Fijis). Note the revetment directly in front of photographer, looking as though it has been recently constructed. Definitely an airfield "in the raw".
David D
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Post by expatkiwi on Aug 30, 2012 13:40:57 GMT 12
Did any of New Zealand's airplanes have the prefix ZL or ZM assigned?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 30, 2012 13:46:24 GMT 12
The Flying Fleas in NZ had ZM- prefixes I think.
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Post by camtech on Aug 30, 2012 20:50:50 GMT 12
ZM was used as a radio call sign for military aircraft in NZ
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Post by mit on Aug 31, 2012 5:54:00 GMT 12
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