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Post by matariki on Feb 23, 2012 8:37:36 GMT 12
While digging through a mass of old photos and newspaper articles at my grandparents house, looking for genealogy resources, I came across about half-a-dozen old photos of aircraft. I'm going to try and scan them to put them up, because I'm sure someone else will also find them fascinating. We're not sure of when the photos were taken, but they're likely to be west coast - at least two are recognisable as at Greymouth.
In the meantime, two of the photos has recognizable regos.
AGN and AFW. The second looks like a Tiger Moth, not sure of the first.
Anyone know anything about the history of these regos?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 23, 2012 10:12:48 GMT 12
Hi Matariki, It seems that ZK-AGN was the Foster Wikner Wicko, an interesting type that served time in the RNZAF in WWII. gallery.aerohub.co.nz/main.php?g2_itemId=6300ZK-AFW was indeed a Tiger Moth, and later impressed into the RNZAF became NZ708. The photos must be pre-WWII as NZ708 was broken up at Hobsonville in 1946 and not returned to civil life. I'm looking forward to seeing the photos. |
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Post by Peter Lewis on Feb 23, 2012 11:10:50 GMT 12
Wicko ZK-AGN was based at Hastings and Palmerston North prewar, but presumably got around.
Impressed RNZAF as NZ580 6Oct1939, served at Communications Flight, Rongotai
Cr near Johnsonville 24Oct42.
Tiger ZK-AFW was a West Coast United AC, Greymouth aircraft 1938-1940.
Impressed RNZAF as NZ708 16Feb1940, became INST27 at Rongotai, Nelson and Hobsonville.
Scrapped at Hobsonville 1946
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Post by matariki on Feb 24, 2012 21:26:08 GMT 12
Thanks hugely for all that information - it gives us a timeline and confirms what we'd suspected. My great uncle learned to fly in Tiger Moths at the Grey Aero club before he went off to war, and it's likely his old photos.
Am working on getting the photos scanned, but it may be a while. Have since discovered a few more - these were taken in the late 1940's, and include a few DC3 photos, as well as what looks to be a flying boat by the name of Aotearoa, parked up on land somewhere.
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Post by Peter Lewis on Feb 25, 2012 6:39:23 GMT 12
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Post by matariki on Mar 26, 2012 10:01:31 GMT 12
I'll apologise first for the amount of time it's taken to get these up! There are 11 photos here - I discovered a few more and I will upload them also. AGN and AFW:   Also what looks to be a blurry tiger flying! Corrected: Vincent or Vildebeest.  Something else blurry. Corrected: Dragonfly. Landing on a beach somewhere.  And another Tiger photo?  Two of Aotearoa:   And a few mysteries, the first looks very much like at Greymouth, the second might be a Lancaster. Correction: B-24, Early Pacific War   Also, IMHO, the most proper-looking aircraft out!   |
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Post by htbrst on Mar 26, 2012 10:52:06 GMT 12
Awesome photos!
The 'blurry tiger' looks to be a Vincent or Vildebeest
The 'Lancaster' is a B-24 Liberator
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Post by shorty on Mar 26, 2012 12:04:12 GMT 12
"Something else blurry" is a Dragonfly landing on a beach
"Another Tiger photo" seems to have Air Force roundels on it
Interesting photo of ZK-AMA, I had always assumed that it sat there on it's beaching gear
Ist mystery aircraft at Greymouth is a Hudson
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Post by matariki on Mar 26, 2012 13:28:56 GMT 12
Thanks very much for the corrections and further info, it's good to know!
For anyone who's interested, the 'Another Tiger Photo' has my great uncle in the centre, but I don't have names for the other chaps... most of the photos would have been taken by him. The exceptions to this are the last two, and the Aotearoa photos which were my grandfathers.
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Post by angelsonefive on Mar 26, 2012 13:41:48 GMT 12
Thanks for posting these most interesting photos.
Well worth waiting for.
The B-24 must have visited very early in the Pacific War. I see it has the red centre disc in the US national insignia.
The pics of ZK-AMA take me back.
I have a childhood memory of sitting in the cockpit of a flying boat that was on land, and listening to a recording which described the functions of the various controls.
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Post by chinapilot on Mar 26, 2012 14:27:42 GMT 12
Interesting photos!
B-24, as angelsonefive comments, seems to be a very early one...
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Post by Peter Lewis on Mar 26, 2012 16:52:24 GMT 12
Nice to see the closeup of the Empire boat.
That's the closest photo of the actual Mission Bay installation that I have seen.
I was told that the boat was displayed still on beaching gear and the structure around the hull was decorative rather than load-bearing.
From this photograph, that information looks to be wrong.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 27, 2012 9:53:25 GMT 12
Fascinating stuff. The photo of the Hudson intrigues me. Note that it is not a Mk IIIa, it has the different engines and if it's an RNZAF example has to be a Mk V or a Mk VI.
However the markings look different from any RNZAF example I have seen, the huge G on the side is out of character, and the roundel seems top be just red-white-blue with no yellow outer. The landscape has a revetment, and I can only guess that if it's in NZ, then the station is RNZAF Waipapakauri. But it's possible the photo is from overseas and it's an RAAF example I guess.
Also there's nothing to indicate that the B-24 is taken in NZ either. It could be anywhere.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 27, 2012 10:09:16 GMT 12
Further to the Hudson, there seem to be no roundels on top of the wings - VERY unusual if it's a New Zealand example. I reckon it is RAAF.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 27, 2012 11:34:13 GMT 12
Actually I wonder if the Hudson photo is perhaps at Gisborne? Maybe they are Gunnery Training Flight Hudsons? Perhaps that's why there's a larger letter on the side? I think some of the Hudsons with the oddball engines were used for Gunnery training. NZ2001 definitely was. But the roundels are still a mystery, and the whole thing has me somewhat baffled.
Note there's a second and third Hudson in the distance and something that might be a fourth Hudson or a Dakota.
Also interesting to see what looks like painted cowl rings on the Empire, would they have been black? Red?
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Post by Bruce on Mar 27, 2012 11:47:03 GMT 12
the "cowl rings" on the empire are actually the exhaust manifolds for the pegasus engines. these formed the front face of the cowling and were bare metal - in practice the exhaust heat made these a "Burnished bronze" colour. Also seen on other bristol - powered aircraft such as the lysander, Wellington, Beaufighter etc.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 27, 2012 13:12:46 GMT 12
OK, thanks for that Bruce.
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Post by baz62 on Mar 27, 2012 16:44:22 GMT 12
Those engine cowlings don't look long enough for the Pratt and Whitney powered Hudson. Looks like the Wright Cyclone MK III, especially seeing the large top scoop on the top of the cowling rather than further back as on the P & W models.
Think you might be right about it being RAAF.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 27, 2012 23:58:10 GMT 12
Baz, I'm really not certain about the mark of Hudon now that you mention the scoop on top, as the Mk V and VI didn't seem to have that. But the spinner looks huge and odd and at first glance the whole cowls looked wrong for a MkIII or IIIa.
I have seen a photo of an RAAF Hudson with a letter N in the same size on the fuselage but forward of the starboard wing,
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Post by baz62 on Mar 28, 2012 16:20:30 GMT 12
Baz, I'm really not certain about the mark of Hudon now that you mention the scoop on top, as the Mk V and VI didn't seem to have that. But the spinner looks huge and odd and at first glance the whole cowls looked wrong for a MkIII or IIIa. I have seen a photo of an RAAF Hudson with a letter N in the same size on the fuselage but forward of the starboard wing, Didn't some of the Hudson have this ugly spinner on the Wright Cyclone powered Hudsons? I'm sure I've seen photos with them on RNZAF Hudsons. Ahh I googled and found a photo of the ugly prop spinner but its on P & W powered Mark V. But I'm sure I've seen it on a Cyclone Hudson too. Hard to tell isn't it. |
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