|
|
Post by harvard1041 on Jan 21, 2012 20:48:06 GMT 12
Just spent a few hours down at the Israeli Air Force Museum at Hatzerim - about 1 1/2 hours south of Tel Aviv - all open air - which is never good for aircraft - but pretty neat all the same - lots & lots of F-4s ( and A-4s ) but also some older stuff. It's a big site - not all open to the Public - of course some of the more interesting stuff is in the workshop etc - have a contact there now so hoping for a closer look in due course.  Czeck built 109  Three Spitfires - in various states of decay - understand the Black one is pretty nice - hope to see it as well - but presently off site in maintenance.  P-51Ds  Real Mans Aircraft - the Harvard  Some Austers  Mig 21 - Iraqi Defector in 1966 - apparently well tested by the IAF at the time.  Lots ( & lots ) of F-4s - real machine - I kinda like them - bit of a maintenance nightmare however.  A-4s - there is a pretty full revetment nearby with another 15+ ( remains of the ones Safe worked on Al ? )  A-4 tailpipe extension  Lavi Prototype  Ex USMC Kfir - Aggressor Sqn  ...let us know if this is of interest - have lots more.. Cheers Hvd1041 |
|
|
|
Post by curtiss on Jan 21, 2012 21:18:22 GMT 12
That 109 is pretty cool.
Keen to see some more photos.
|
|
|
|
Post by harvard1041 on Jan 21, 2012 21:47:20 GMT 12
A few more... A Kfir  All that remains of the Qty 40 Mosquitos Israel had  Quite a few of these type wrecks - Israel has shot down more jets than all other air arms combined ( if the guides there are correct ) - suspect they are  F-15A - yes - these are considered Museum aircraft in Israel  Meteors  Lots of Missiles & Guns - mostly Russian.  SAM 2  C-47  ...any more ? |
|
|
|
Post by skyhawkdon on Jan 22, 2012 10:16:41 GMT 12
More A-4's if you have them please!
|
|
|
|
Post by baz62 on Jan 22, 2012 10:45:55 GMT 12
Great photos John, keep them coming. The Black Spitfire is airworthy although not sure when she last flew. That Harvard looks like a Canadian built one or at least an early North American built Mark with the long exhaust pipe and different rear canopy shape. Mrk II or IIb perhaps?
Christ that Mark 5 Auster looks sad, the wheels are way too small and look at the undercarriage and the windscreen. Oh the pain the pain! ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by Bruce on Jan 22, 2012 11:10:27 GMT 12
I'm not actually sure it is an Auster - there are plenty of similar looking machines around.
The Bare framework behind is a Norseman - the IAF used these as bombers!
|
|
|
|
Post by harvard1041 on Jan 22, 2012 17:30:01 GMT 12
Hi Bruce - sign said Auster - but then I don't know my Austers I'm afraid - never even flown in one sadly. Here is the second one - and Yes Norseman - looks sort of Lysander like I thought.  There were two A-4s in the main compound Don - an A-4F and an A-4H. Think many of the -Fs came directly from USN service after the 1967 war ...while the -Hs were new built Douglas machines - drag shoots, radio changes ( bit like our A-4Ks) - and the 30mm DEFAs fitted in Israel - are they the cannon on the Mirage III ? No A-4Ns on display but in a revetment sort of adjacent.     Will post some more when back from work. Cheers Hvd1041 |
|
|
|
Post by baronbeeza on Jan 22, 2012 18:16:50 GMT 12
Good stuff John, You may remember from your time with the RAF how the pilots were not at ease with the idea of the ZSU 23x4..They must have been a demon of a machine in their day. The guys trying to drop the cluster bombs were right down there mixing it with them.. not a pleasant thought at all. I have never seen anything similar in Vietnam. They had the SAM's and a lot of captured artillery. The Mosquito exhibit is interesting...... Don't let Dave's mates in the UK see it as we will get another two weeks of the merits of a metal version.  |
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 22, 2012 19:47:39 GMT 12
What was the purpose of the extended tailpipe on the Skyhawks?
|
|
|
|
Post by ErrolC on Jan 22, 2012 20:16:11 GMT 12
What was the purpose of the extended tailpipe on the Skyhawks? Infra-red guided missiles tend to have small warheads - especially shoulder-launched ones. The hope is that the warhead will explode on contacting (or whatever fuzing method they actually use) the extended tailpipe, and not have fatal damage to the aircraft. |
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 22, 2012 20:33:47 GMT 12
Wow, has that ever been proven? Has a jet been struck on the extended pipe and survived?
|
|
|
|
Post by ErrolC on Jan 22, 2012 21:41:32 GMT 12
Wow, has that ever been proven? Has a jet been struck on the extended pipe and survived? I don't know any detail, I've just heard of the concept. Comments per model review: www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/has/kit_has_09575.shtmlThe first A-4Ns had only started operations with one squadron before the Yom Kippur war started. The Skyhawks took severe losses in combat. The problem centered around the use of the new shoulder-fired SA-7 Grail surface-to-air missile. When it hit the Skyhawk in the tailpipe, it disabled the flight controls. Another Israeli aircraft, the Super Mystere, which had also been refitted with the Skyhawk's J52 engine, also suffered hits by the SA-7, but unlike the A-4, these aircraft usually returned home. The difference was the location of the tailpipe opening - on the Skyhawk it was under the tail flight controls, on the Super Mystere, it was well aft of the tail controls. The solution was simple, extend the exhaust duct to well behind the tail. All Skyhawks received this modification (amongst others) after the 1973 war concluded. |
|
|
|
Post by harvard1041 on Jan 23, 2012 3:34:21 GMT 12
|
|
|
|
Post by johnnyfalcon on Jan 23, 2012 8:16:17 GMT 12
GOOD GRIEF, what a variety of types! Surely some of the especially rare and exotic aircraft could be better protected...eg Me 109, Spitfire, Meteor et al (not too worried about the 'Auster') take the bait Baz :-)
|
|
|
|
Post by flyjoe180 on Jan 23, 2012 8:41:35 GMT 12
Great photos, so many famous types of aircraft. Some of them could do with a good water blasting.
|
|
|
|
Post by shamus on Jan 23, 2012 9:03:10 GMT 12
What a great collection. Pity its outside.
|
|
Hekatahuna
Leading Aircraftman
Mururoa Watch
Posts: 9 
|
Post by Hekatahuna on Jan 23, 2012 10:23:01 GMT 12
Hi Harvard1041,
A great set of photos of an interesting collection. The a/c may need a little water blasting, but they are going to last a lot longer than other outdoor collections we all know of because of the Med/Negev desert climate.
Just two notes to add re A4s:-
The drag chute installation was an IAF innovation that was built into the A4K by Douglas in 1969.
The aerodynamic pod in the foreground of one of your A4H shots with the 103 marking is a Sargent Fletcher Air Refueling Store.
|
|
|
|
Post by harvard1041 on Mar 10, 2012 20:56:11 GMT 12
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 11, 2012 20:51:21 GMT 12
Those Skyhawks are pretty rough eh.
|
|
|
|
Post by corsair67 on Mar 11, 2012 21:40:32 GMT 12
Have you made an offer on any of them?  |
|
