|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on May 29, 2006 8:19:04 GMT 12
I see that Australia is expected to also select the NH90 to replace their fleet of Blackhawk helicopters with, and possibly their troubled Sea Sprites. www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19209328-5002142,00.html As the RNZAF has also selected the NH90, I wonder if the NZ ones will be cheaper if they go in on a deal with the RAAF and have ours assembled in Australia. |
|
|
|
Post by corsair67 on May 29, 2006 14:16:21 GMT 12
I wish they were getting the EH101 Merlin instead: they're a much prettier helicopter!  It'll be interesting to see which road the ADF finally decides to take as concerns the Blackhawks - upgrade the existing S-70 Blackhawks, buy new Blackhawks, or them replace with more MRH-90s? |
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on May 29, 2006 19:06:25 GMT 12
Pretty? I've never seen a 'pretty' helicopter.
I've seen grunty. I've seen capable. I've seen awesome. I've seen ugly. Never pretty.
The only thing I don't like about us buying the Eurocopters is they're only getting ten. I'd prefer about 25 of them.
|
|
|
|
Post by corsair67 on May 29, 2006 19:37:22 GMT 12
Any helicopter can be pretty - if you paint peace signs and flowers all over them! ;D Yeah, ten NH-90s just doesn't seem right to me either. I know they are bigger and more capable than the Iroquois, but if you consider that 2 may be down for faults or servicing at any one time, then effectively you are left with only 8 to play with. I reckon fourteen would be a better number for the NZDF to think about. After all, helicopters are the "friendly face" of the military because they can be used in civil emergencies and peace keeping operations, so Helen shouldn't mind coughing up more dosh for them!  Has any decision been made in regards to a replacement for the Sioux? Maybe if they get something of a decent size like a Squirrel or A109 for training, then that may pick up some of the slack in civil emergencies in NZ? Just don't let the Army pilots get their hands on them! ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on May 29, 2006 20:20:59 GMT 12
You have to take attrition into account too. Helicopters work in dangerous environments in NZ and we've had several of both types crash over the years. With a fleet of just ten, you'd have to hope to not strike a bad run of crashes.
If it were me I'd create two operational squadrons, one in Auckland and one in Christchurch. Maybe we should start a helicopter appeal to purchase more, like the rescue chopers have. After all, thse are all rescue choppers plus much more, and often the additional work is dirty work that civvies wouldn't do as a rule.
|
|
|
|
Post by corsair67 on May 29, 2006 20:29:59 GMT 12
Yeah, just like the good old days of WW1 and WW2 when groups gave money to buy a Sopwith Camel or a Hawker Hurricane, there could be RNZAF NH-90s flying around with interesting names like "Hawkes Bay Federated Farmers" or "Otago Catholic Women's Association" painted on the side! ;D
I'd forgotten about attrition: how many 'reborn' Iroquois are flying around in NZ? I can think of one - NZ3807 which crashed while attempting to rescue Mark Inglis and Phil Doole from Mt Cook in the early-80s!
|
|
|
|
Post by phil on May 29, 2006 22:08:47 GMT 12
The light helicopter will do what the Sioux does now, and the lighter end of what the Iroquois does, SAR work, PR visits, police work etc. It will be a training aircraft for the crewies as well, currently they utilise the Iro for that task, but the light helicopter will/should have a winch and the seating for instructor and students in the back. The NH90 will do the heavier end of what the Iro does, plus more. The heavy lifting, the troop transport, special ops etc will the the NH90s job.
|
|
|
|
Post by steve on May 30, 2006 1:30:49 GMT 12
Dave...NH90 purchase ..you reakon ten have been approved...are you sure?? ...my impression was eight...i hope you are right that would be a good start ...14 was never a starter...where did all the savings on the strike wing go to......arts and cultural obsessions..?
Even the greens would see the usefulness of large choppers 12 nh90s and a extra couple of c130s would be welcomed esp with E Temor 2 opps commencing
|
|
|
|
Post by corsair67 on May 30, 2006 9:57:46 GMT 12
Steve, in my opinion if they end up buying only eight NH-90s, then they might as well not bother buying any at all. I'd heard something along that line too, but I'm hoping it's not true. Clark/Cullen need to spend some of that bloody Budget surplus on NZ, and not whittle it away on foreign aid. Buying new helicopters allows them to have their cake and eat it too, because they can send them overseas from time to time on aid missions!  Yep, a couple of extra C-130s would also be an excellent acquisition for the RNZAF, and the RAAF might have a few C-130H (1978) models going cheap fairly soon! |
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on May 30, 2006 10:30:43 GMT 12
My figure of ten was based on what the article linked above states.
|
|
|
|
Post by corsair67 on May 30, 2006 10:44:02 GMT 12
I think ten is the number the RNZAF hope to get; but like all good politicians, Clark and Cullen will no doubt be hoping to whittle that number down a bit. I guess it'll all depend on how much they are going to cost, so maybe tagging onto the Australian production line will save the NZDF a bit of money. Although word is that the ADF aren't completely happy with the Tigers that Australian Aerospace are building for them...........!  |
|
|
|
Post by phil on May 30, 2006 21:48:54 GMT 12
Well they purchased 105 LAVs, and you can't say the army needed, or can use, anywhere near that number...
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on May 30, 2006 21:54:30 GMT 12
A very good point Phil
|
|
|
|
Post by xr6turbo on May 30, 2006 22:32:42 GMT 12
I have heard that the RNZAF are thinking about tendering most of there SAR work out to civilian companies and if this is true I could see them cutting numbers of new choppers back. The thought is that there are plently of civillian aircraft our there that could do the job and save the airforce a lot of hours. Surely they would get at least 12 but with our government they probably dont really want to buy any |
|
|
|
Post by Calum on May 30, 2006 23:15:23 GMT 12
I'd heard 8-12 as mooted . I can see how 8 is enough . I'd suggest 10 is the bare minimum.
2 in Deep maintenace 2 in O level maintenace, 6 on line...... And for anew helcioter with technology the RNZAF hasn't seen yet, I d say this optomistic
|
|
|
|
Post by phil on May 31, 2006 18:42:04 GMT 12
I have heard that the RNZAF are thinking about tendering most of there SAR work out to civilian companies and if this is true I could see them cutting numbers of new choppers back. The thought is that there are plently of civillian aircraft our there that could do the job and save the airforce a lot of hours. Surely they would get at least 12 but with our government they probably dont really want to buy any It's not up to the RNZAF to tender SAR work to a civy company, SAR is an output that the Govt purchases off us, if they choose to purchase it off someone else that's up to them, but I hadn't heard anything about that, although I am more out of the loop these days than I was a year ago. Where did you pick that up? |
|
|
|
Post by xr6turbo on May 31, 2006 19:03:20 GMT 12
A couple of airforce guys told me but you know what rumours can be like, the feeling was the RNZAF was doing to much SAR work but I wouldnt know enough about it to comment.
Like you say it will be up to the government to choose what they do.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on May 31, 2006 19:08:43 GMT 12
My understanding is that NZ signed some sort of international treaty many decades ago which says the NZ Government must provide a SAR service. So if they start taking the capability away from the RNZAF, do they have to set up some Government-run civil unit? That makes no sense when a perfectly good service already exists in the RNZAF. The civil rescue helicopters in service now are run by private trusts, not the Government.
I recall a case back in the early 1990's where someone in the Chatham Islands was injured somehow, (shark attack?) and the National Rescue Centre chose to send the late Peter Button's helicopter from Wellington to fly and pick them up. He received much media praise for the feat, quite rightly as it was at the end of his Jet Ranger's endurance, but this did not go down at all well with my RNZAF colleagues at No. 3 Squadron Detachment who were willing and able to do the rescue much faster from Christchurch, without the risk to themselves that Button faced, but they'd been overruled by Wellington. Would the RNZAF of today also be upset at losing part of their job to civvies? Or is there now simply a culture that's used to such actions as successive Governments whittle away capability? I mean, they surely can't do that much effective rescue work nowadays anyway since all the choppers are in Ohakea, away from the Alps etc where most rescues take place. Most of the things we see them on the news for now is long term searches and body recovery.
|
|
|
|
Post by corsair67 on May 31, 2006 19:52:47 GMT 12
Ah Dave, you've reminded me of the days spent in Christchurch listening to/watching the Iroqouis heading out to pluck some idiot to safety after they've come upon some misfortune up in the Southern Alps. I think the reality is that now there are so many (too many?) civil operators flying rescue helicopters in New Zealand that the RNZAF just aren't called on as often anymore. How this all came about I don't know, but that's "progress" I suppose. Does 3SQN still get called upon to assist in fighting scrub fires anymore? |
|
|
|
Post by phil on May 31, 2006 21:40:47 GMT 12
They still maintain the capability, and they train with the fire service. There are photos around of a scrub fire they helped put out a couple of years ago. I dont know who often they do fire fighting these days.
|
|
