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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 1, 2006 17:29:05 GMT 12
This month marks the 30th Anniversary since the delivery of our first Andover, NZ7624.
And also this year they turned 40, those still around. Yet my opinion is the type still looks modern.
I think they're one of the nicest looking military transports ever designed, and also one of the most useful aircraft the RNZAF has operated.
I think it'd be nice to start a thread specifically about the Andover, particulalrly in RNZAF service but also with the RAF and post-military ownership. Feel free to post any stories or photos here.
To kick off, here's a flashback to March 1977 from NZ Wings:
Andover VIP conversion
Work has begun on converting the first of the RNZAF's new Andover C.1s to VIP configuration for service with No. 42 Sqn at Ohakea.
NZ7628, which went into the workshops of No. 1 Repair Depot at Woodbourne last month, is being converted as the V-VIP aircraft. When it is finished, in about four months, it will be followed by the VIP aircraft, NZ7622.
The work at Woodbourne includes the installation of several passenger compartments in each aircraft as well as such fitments as a galley and toilet.
Both aircraft will be stripped of their RAF desert camouflage, as will all four of No. 42 Sqn's Andovers, and they will be repainted in the white top/blue cheat line finish similar to that used on the Hercules, Dakotas and communications Devons.
Also last month, the first Andover to be delivered, NZ7624 (see Dec/Jan WINGS) went into the workshops of Safe Air at Woodbourne for a Check Two inspection, during which it was being stripped and repainted in the RNZAF's jungle camouflage colours. The RNZAF told WINGS a similar repainting of the other No. 1 Sqn aircraft will be undertaken as they, too, undergo Check Two inspections.
At the time of going to press, five Andovers had been delivered to new Zealand, two for No. 1 Sqn at Whenuapai and three for No 42 Sqn.
The RNZAF detachment at RAF Brize Norton, where the training of air and ground crews was carried out, has now been disbanded and only one technical officer is remaining in Britain to supervise the withdrawal from storage of the remaining five aircraft. They are due in New Zealand in mid-March and May.
I'm assuming V-VIP is Very Very Important Person.
It has just struck me that when a new type like this is bought by the RNZAF, and the air and groundcrews go to the UK for type training, there must have to also be some specialist training for the contractors - in this case SAFE Air. Would they also have sent staff to the UK to train, or would an RNZAF team have learned all the Check Two stuff and passed it on back home to them?
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Post by phil82 on Dec 2, 2006 8:07:13 GMT 12
I can relate one story of one of those VIP Andovers!
In the time of the Lange Government, a VIP Andover went to the Chathams carrying then Cabinet Minister Anne Hercus and few hangars-on from various government departments
including one from the Civili Aviation Authority who was also an Air Training Corps Officer, although he had never served in any capacity.
The aircraft was to overnight Later that night, apparently after some drinks had been partaken , some of the passengers including the two aforementioned, decided it would be 'fun' to test police security by gaining access to the aircraft by removing an emergency escape hatch. This they did, but stopped when they realised it was lock-wired from the inside, so they replaced it and presumably returned to the piss-up.
The press got a hold of it and the police ended up wearing some flack despite the aircraft not being guarded because there was no perceived threat to it in the Chathams!
Enter the Police association to defend the Police. I knew the Secretary of the Police Association very well, he was a Snr Sgt, a good cop, and a very good mate, sadly now deceased, but he rang me and asked what the consequences were of removing an escape hatch. I told him they were usually lock-wired for additional safety, and to provide a visual check by the Loady or the crew that all was well. If, however, one had been opened and not properly secured, and not noticed by the crew, then there could have been a very real possibility of a catastrophic decompression once the aircraft gained altitude.
Armed with this information, the Police Association had a go at Anne Hercus and the
passenger responsible, and I understand they were both given a severe bollocking by Lange himself.
Which just goes to show that as far as politicians are concerned, the only one who ever entered Parliamnet with the right idea was Guy Falkes!
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Post by phil82 on Dec 2, 2006 8:10:08 GMT 12
I crossed the Tasman to Nowra in an Andover once; sitting alongside a huge additional fuel tank!
From Sydney to Nowra we ran into the edge of a thunder-storm, and we slowed down to roll with the punches. That fuel tank was creaking and groaning, the wings were bending,and we were being thrown around quite a bit, and I must admit I sent a silent prayer to Hawker Siddeley!
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Post by Calum on Dec 2, 2006 9:09:41 GMT 12
It has just struck me that when a new type like this is bought by the RNZAF, and the air and groundcrews go to the UK for type training, there must have to also be some specialist training for the contractors - in this case SAFE Air. Would they also have sent staff to the UK to train, or would an RNZAF team have learned all the Check Two stuff and passed it on back home to them? I doubt there were contractors in those days. IRD was a service organisation then |
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Post by Calum on Dec 2, 2006 9:15:15 GMT 12
My first flight in a RNZAF aircraft was in a Andover. I flew in it from Hamilton to Ohakea and then onto Woodbourne for my recruit course
Spend a few months on 42 sqn between basic and mechs course. I agree with your sentiments Dave, nice looking aircraft and the RNZAF got got service from them.
Still think there is a niche for this type of aircraft in many air forces OoB. The USAF and US Army are looking a intra theatre transport now, the ADF still can't decide how to replace the Bou's so I guess I'm not the only one who thinks this.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 2, 2006 9:16:40 GMT 12
Safe were obviously contracted though as they were doing Check Twos.
Colin, I never realised the Andover was pressurised. I always assumedthey didn't climb above 10,000 feet. I've only flown in one on two occasions, to and from Wanaka for Exercise Wise Owl from home base at Wigram. We kept low all the way.
The first time I ever saw an Air Force aircraft it was an Andover at the airport in Norfolk Island. It did that amazing and I guess unique croouch thing which really impressed me.
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Post by Calum on Dec 2, 2006 9:17:59 GMT 12
good point , I missed that
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Post by phil82 on Dec 2, 2006 12:59:27 GMT 12
Yep, service ceiling was 25,000', but normal cruise was around 19,000. I stand to be corrected, but I understand all RR Dart -powered aircraft operated best under 20,000.
The Andover would have been pretty useless if it had to go everywhere unpressurised.
The kneeling undercarriage was unique to the Andover, and was incorporated to allow full use of the ramp at different heights. I think the RAF referred to them as the "clockwork mouse".
There were only 31 Andovers ever built and we got ten from the RAF when they were fairly new.We had an excellent return of service from them in my view!
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Post by Bruce on Dec 3, 2006 19:20:06 GMT 12
does anyone have any pics showing how the main undercarriage kneels? I have an Andover model in my "to do" heap, and i wouldnt mind doing it with the doors open and kneeling, although the quality of the kit (Formaplane Vac form) may make this impractical. obviously lots of Andover Pics and info could move this higher up the "to do" list!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 12, 2006 22:05:19 GMT 12
I have had a good look for photos of the wheels kneeling Bruce but had no luck. Sorry.
Here's another blast from the past abouth the Andovers entering RNZAF service, from NZ Wings October 1976:
Andover Crew Training
Work has begun in the United Kingdom on preparing the RNZAF's ten HS780 Andover C.1 transports for delivery to this country.
The first three pilots are already in Britain being converted onto the type at the RAF's main transport base at Brize Norton; two of them, Sqn ldr George Oldfield, and Sqn ldr Dave Reynish, are being rated as type instructors. Another five pilots from No's 1 and 42 Sqns are due to leave for Britain towards the end of the month.
During a visit to Britian in recent weeks, the newly-appointed Chief of Air Staff, Air Vice Marshall Siegert, was shown the first aircraft, NZ7620, undergoing hydraulic tests, including the unique kneeling undercarriage.
The Air Force says the handover is going very smoothly at this stage, and it is working to an arrival date for the first aircraft of about the second week in December.
Final disposition of the ten aircraft among the RNZAF's three short/medium range transport squadrons is still being studied following the Government's decision to retain air and ground forces in Singapore.
Dispersing ten aircraft around three different locations would appear a little illogical, and a more probable course would be for the Air Force to consider short term detachments to Singapore from the Whenuapai and Ohakea squadrons.
Such a move has a precedent in No. 3 Squadron's Iroquois detachment at Wigram, and the RAF's No. 46 Sqn (from where the New Zealand Andovers have come) previously maintained a detachment at Masirah in the Gulf States.
But whatever the outcome, the RNZAF's Bristol Freighters are scheduled to be withdrawn from service by the end of 1977.
Recently received is information on the previous RAF identities of the RNZAF's Andovers, with the RNZAF serial numbers in brackets, they are
XS599 (NZ7620),
XS600 (NZ7621),
XS602 (NZ7622),
XS604 (NZ7623),
XS608 (NZ7624),
XS611 (NZ7625),
XS612 (NZ7626),
XS613 (NZ7627)
XS638 (NZ7628) and
XS645 (NZ7629)
For the delivery flights to New Zealand, the aircraft will retain their two-tone brown camouflage, but with the addition of kiwi roundels and the name Royal New Zealand Air Force along the fuselage above the window line.
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Post by phil82 on Dec 13, 2006 4:29:30 GMT 12
George Oldfield later became Flight Safety Officer for ANZ, but sadly deceased now; I don't know where Dave Reynish went after the RNZAF; Larry Siegert, the CAS mentioned, now lives in Lower Hutt and I see him occasionally, but he's not in the best of health.He's well into his 80s of course.
I recall one , if not all,of the delivery flights came through India, and was delayed for a few days when the crew caught an acute case of 'Delhi Belly' and couldn't fly!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 13, 2006 10:59:53 GMT 12
I have a strong feeling that David Reynish was the father of Mark Reynish, who was training to be an Armourer when I was at No. 1TTS in 1991. Mark told me his dad had been in the RNZAF as a pilot and was by that time an airline pilot flying 747's. I cannot recall which airline.
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Post by camtech on Dec 17, 2007 21:06:05 GMT 12
I was one of the first batch of groundies to go to UK for training at Brize Norton. The 'sumpies' were already there having spent time at Rolls Royce. The first aircraft delivered was NZ7624, arriving, I think, on 2 November 1976 and promptly photographed to death! 7622 arrived later in November. We were on training courses with RAF guys, as they were replaing the whistling wheelbarrows with Andovers as radio cal aircraft. 7624 departed uk late November, flying home via Naples, Cairo, Bahrein, Bombay, Calcutta, Butterworth, Bali, Darwin and Amberly. The rest of the first group flew by C130 to Lajes, Washington, San Francisco, Hawaii, Fiji, with a load of spares jammed in with us.
All aircraft flew the same basic route - 20 and 25 both diverted to Singapore for maintenance and oxygen refills. We had the 900 gallon internal tanks fitted for the trip home, but 29, the last to arrive had stayed on to have the centre fuel tank mod embodied. The tank was fitted to all aircraft on manufacture, but the RAF never used them. Safe modified the remainder.
When we had a couple of aircraft home, two (24 and 28 were flown to Woodbourne in Feb 1977. 24 went to SAFE for them to see the aircraft and work out how it would fit in the hangar. 28 was used by No 1 RD to measure up for the VIP fit, then as the first to be modified. 24 flew back to Whenuapai a week later.
The aircraft got around a fair bit - Singapore, Bangkok, Indonesia, Solomon Is, Fiji and other Pacific islands, and obviously Australia. The trip to Singapore was a three dayer.
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Post by camtech on Dec 17, 2007 21:10:04 GMT 12
Just noted the fact about repainting the Andover on the first servicing. That was a huge joke, as the paint was so well applied that it took almost three weeks to strip 28 for the VIP fit. The operational aircraft were left in desert colours for quite some time, due to the quality of the paintwork. The solar caps were painted out in about 78 or 79.
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Post by kiwi on Dec 18, 2007 7:13:49 GMT 12
Any truth in the rumour that one was rolled , and that sometime later the pilots were in trouble for this ?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 18, 2007 11:38:16 GMT 12
Thanks for the excellent info Camtech. Welcome aboard. What trade were you?
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Post by motoxjase on Dec 18, 2007 20:18:27 GMT 12
Why were the Andovers retired? Were the Air-Frames geting hard to maintain?
I wouldve thought that with to-days RNZAF the Andovers would still have a major role to play
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Post by phil on Dec 18, 2007 21:38:07 GMT 12
I wouldve thought that with to-days RNZAF the Andovers would still have a major role to play A sentiment shared by many! |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 19, 2007 11:50:42 GMT 12
They were retired because the Government was pitting the squeeze on the budget and cutting back everywhere - including closing bases. Narrow-mindedness saw the sale of the Andovers. Even long before they were sold off, half the fleet were mothballed due to restricted numbers of flying hours allowed by the bean counters. As airframes they were all fine, and most went on to other careers apart from the two ground-bound airframes that the RNZAF retained.
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Post by motoxjase on Dec 19, 2007 17:14:45 GMT 12
The Bean-Counters must've been out at lunch when the goverment decided to buy 30 odd new BMW limos at approx 170 thou!!!!!!
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