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Post by noooby on May 15, 2015 12:20:59 GMT 12
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Post by baz62 on May 15, 2015 12:34:07 GMT 12
baz62, Also I will in the future have t-shirts made and other items for sale. Eric M We are fans of T-Shirts down here! :-) This will be the perfect place to sell some merchandise to raise money :-) Cheers Baz |
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Post by projectwarbird on Aug 23, 2015 10:29:28 GMT 12
Thanks to Mike Nicholls I now have a picture of NZ3056.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2015 13:42:05 GMT 12
Excellent! I bet there'll be a big print-out of this on the workshop wall in no time! Very cool.
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Post by fwx on Aug 23, 2015 17:42:07 GMT 12
Great news that another RNZAF Kittyhawk could be back in the air one day - thanks for sharing with us Eric, and best of luck!
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Post by davidd on Aug 24, 2015 11:10:31 GMT 12
Before somebody starts mixing paints for application to a certain P-40, please note that the colours shown in the illustration is not entirely accurate in that the tan brown and green scheme should in fact be a blue-grey and green scheme! Unfortunately I cannot tell at this stage whether the blue-grey should be in place of the green or the brown shade. For many years the tan brown/green scheme has been accepted as fact, although no documentary evidence has ever been put forward by anybody but for some speculative profile paintings (although not captioned as such). However it has always been known that this scheme was applied in NZ in about March 1943, just before the departure of these P-40Ks for the forward area with 14 Squadron, and this was just AFTER the official announcement within RNZAF Routine Orders, that a new paint colour was being introduced into the stores system, to be known as blue grey (Stores Section/Reference 33A/N118 (with the "N" indicating that this paint did NOT appear in the RAF AP 1086 (Vocabulary of stores), and was thus a "local" (non-vocab) addition. This colour was to replace the brown shade in the standard RAF temperate land scheme of dark earth and dark green, and locally was to be applied specifically to Hudsons and Kittyhawks. It should also be noted that the approximate colour had already been introduced experimentally in the forward area (late November 1942) on Hudsons of 3 Squadron, although this paint was almost certainly supplied from local American stocks. In July 1943 it was mentioned briefly in an official communication that RNZAF Kittyhawks in the "forward area" were painted with the "American" blue-grey paint (American inspired I would say), but this was only a passing reference. It also has to be said that P-40Ms were starting to arrive in the forward area at about this time in the original dark olive drab/underside grey scheme, and in fact the P-40Ks were the only NZ Kittyhawks ever to receive the rather fancy two-tone scheme with the wavy demarcation line between upper/side and lower surfaces. Later on, in NZ, the blue grey shade (later also called Sea blue grey) appeared on P-40Es, and on Ansons at New Plymouth from mid-1944, as well as on Hudsons in Fiji. Note that the information I have assembled here is all from memory, but can be supplied in original context and form if required. It is purely on the basis of this rather circumstantial evidence that I make the case for the blue grey and green scheme, but that is a lot more than can be said for the hypothesis that the colours used on these P-40Ks were tan brown and green. There were also a few very good quality RNZAF photographs taken of the new P-40K scheme in NZ prior to departure, and these reveal that the new upper surface colours unexpectedly had contrasting surface finishes, with one colour being a very matt finish, the other was semi-gloss! A few months in the tropics would certainly help even things out! However I have postulated that the darker colour in this scheme my in fact have been dark olive drab rather than RAF-type dark green, but this is only a working supposition put forward as an explanation for this unusual situation. However the undersurface colour on these P-40Ks was certainly a very pale shade, and I cannot offer any facts on what it was, but others will no doubt have a few good (?) guesses.
David D
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Post by planecrazy on Aug 30, 2015 20:15:18 GMT 12
Have been reading that quite a few RNZAF P40s where passed on from the Americans and repainted
in RNZAF markings. I am thinking of doing a model as one of these machines and am wondering if
any ever retained the scollop camo along the leading and trailing edge of the wings?
Thank you..........
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 30, 2015 20:20:18 GMT 12
They were the P-40E's and P-40K's taken over by No. 15 Squadron from the USAAF in Tonga in early 1943. They were later taken by them to Santo. There are so few photos of these machines in their early schemes you'll be hard-pressed to find much info on them I'd think.
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Post by planecrazy on Sept 1, 2015 8:09:14 GMT 12
Found this some nice footage of the Tri State Museum RNZAF P40, looks great with the stripes!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 13:54:17 GMT 12
Very very nice! Looked and sounded wonderful.
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Post by planecrazy on Jan 6, 2016 21:39:46 GMT 12
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Post by komata on Jan 7, 2016 15:05:08 GMT 12
Planecrazy Thank you. Concerning the image titled 'RNZAF Curtiss P-40 Kittyhawks in Flight' at: www.worldwarphotos.info/wp-content/gallery/usa/aircrafts/p-40-warhawk/RNZAF_Curtiss_P-40_Kittyhawk_in_flight.jpgA similar image, although taken at 5 O'clock low, appeared in 'Contact' magazine of March 1943, aircraft 'F' (with the single-barred fuselage roundel) being prominent. I have been attempting to locate details of this formation for many years, without much success, although I have been led to believe that the formation was made up from aircraft of two units (13 and 14 SQN's being mentioned as possible contributors) and that this still image was taken off a newsreel and is RNZAF Official. What can anyone tell me about this flight? Thanks in advance. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 7, 2016 17:55:04 GMT 12
There never was a No. 13 (Fighter) Squadron.
With the letter codes on the chin, I'd say the aircraft are all from No. 4 Servicing Unit. And I am sure your date of March 1943 is incorrect, these are in Pacific combat zone markings and are P-40N's, but P-40N's were not even in service with the RNZAF till June 1943.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 7, 2016 18:12:10 GMT 12
If these P-40N's are No. 4 SU aircraft as I suspect, than they are likely to be as follows:
B = NZ3124 (survived the war)
P = NZ3140 (crashed 24 December 1943)
Z = unknown
F = NZ3153 (crashed 17 December 1943)
G = NZ3148 (crashed 09 February 1944, named "Gloria Lyons")
T = NZ3145 (crashed 17 December 1943)
So this is taken between the 27th of July 1943 when at least three of these aircraft were Brought on Charge at Hobsonville and the 17th of December 1943, when two of them were destroyed. The serials to codes tie-in comes from Ron Hildreth's list which he made when he was on No. 4 SU during WWII. He did not note a 'Z' on that list, or an X and Y.
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Post by planecrazy on Jan 7, 2016 18:41:15 GMT 12
This is very interesting, so the reason for the one sided bar?
She had to fly before they had time to finish, ran out of paint?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 7, 2016 18:54:23 GMT 12
It almost looks like someone has painted over the area, maybe a repair was done there and a new skin? It's hard to say though in this fairly low resolution photo.
Note it also looks like the other fighters either had their cowl letters painted over or they are in red or some other colour as opposed to the white letters so prominent on the other aeroplanes. It would be good to get a high res version and check out those letters. The rear aircraft look almost like C and I? If that is the case they'd be NZ3126 and NZ3135 respectively.
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Post by komata on Jan 8, 2016 11:54:56 GMT 12
Thank you Gentlemen, your answers are appreciated, although it's a shame that the censor crossed-out the visible aircraft serial numbers.
A matter arising: Unlike all its 'three-bladed' mates, the machine directly below aircraft 'T' appears to be flying with a four-bladed prop; definitely not a standard P-40N item. As there are no other aircraft in the vicinity, is this a 'lucky time-lapse capture' of blade movement or...?
Thanks.
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Post by shorty on Jan 8, 2016 12:46:06 GMT 12
There is an aircraft directly behind it. Zoom in on it and you can see the bottom of the spinner and the lower cowl line
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Post by camtech on Jan 11, 2016 10:03:16 GMT 12
Well spotted Shorty!!
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Post by davidd on Jan 12, 2016 8:27:39 GMT 12
From what I can tell, all the (official RNZAF) photographs of this formation were taken on 31st May 1944 out of Ardmore, the photographer being the well-known L L (Leo) White, a photographer in the RNZAF (rank of F/O, in A&SD Branch, and almost certainly from the back seat of a Harvard). Pilots were provided by 19 and 21 Squadrons (presume six from each) and the aircraft, as already observed, are all later model P-40Ns. No. 19 Squadron had reformed at Ardmore on 22nd May in preparation for its second tour, and 21 Squadron had formed as from 1st May as a new squadron. The actual purpose of this photo shoot was not stated in the Ardmore history, but I would guess that somebody at Ardmore, knowing that this type of aircraft was to cease operations in about three days time, thought it an opportune moment to record some nice views of these aircraft in full "combat" markings before they were all repainted in training schemes, although I suspect that other photos were probably taken at Torokina of the final operations in early June.
The actual P-40s are interesting in that they are almost all in the markings of 4 SU (with letter codes on radiator cowlings), although this unit was still at Torokina strip, Bougainville and fully equipped with P-40Ns at this time. The reason these aircraft were already back in New Zealand seems to be that the decision had been made (in about mid-May) to return aircraft with fewest remaining flying hours left on their airframes (or engines) from the Pacific, and transfer all those with the most hours remaining to 4 SU (which was hosting the last squadron to fly this type on operations, No. 17) which would see out the last two weeks or so before these later aircraft were also returned to New Zealand. No. 2 SU (also at Torokina) had been re-equipped with F4U-1 Corsairs in mid-May, which meant that the number of P-40s required for operations during the final two weeks at Torokina was about eighteen. The P-40Ns of No. 1 SU (at Kukum strip, Guadalcanal) had already been returned to New Zealand in latter part of April, their P-40s the first to be displaced by F4U-1s in the Pacific theatre.
The P-40s in the photograph would include most of the following: NZ3205, 16, 17, 21, 23, 24, 26, 27 (which was ex 2 SU, coded "87"), 32, 37, and 42, which were all ex 4 SU, but were swapped with 11 "younger" aircraft from 2 SU on 12th May 1944. The few aircraft without any apparent code letters (or numbers) in the photograph almost certainly from among the seven aircraft of 2 SU aircraft returned to New Zealand at the same time, believed to be NZ3201, 10, 19, 25, 30, 34, 48. Practically all of the individual aircraft listed here were ferried to the forward area during January and February 1944 by 14, 18 and 19 Squadrons. However I cannot provide any of the matching code letters for the ex 4 SU aircraft, as this type of information seems to be unavailable from any source.
David D
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