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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 12, 2016 9:12:53 GMT 12
Wow, that completely blows my research out of the water David. I got the No. 4SU bit right.... but nothing else it seems. How did you ascertain the serial numbers? Have you got a larger print that that can be seen in?
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Post by komata on Jan 12, 2016 9:51:58 GMT 12
davidd
Many thanks for your comprehensive detailing; it is greatly appreciated. Is the serial of aircraft 'F' (the one with only half a bar to its fuselage roundel) known? I ask this as the Censor did a very good job of obliterating it...
FWIW, and in respect of the images, I have been told that a cine-film was also taken of this flight, and that a copy resides in a film museum / archive in Foxton, evidently forming part of a newsreel. Unfortunately, although I tried several years ago to contact that organisation to enquire further, no reply was received. Perhaps it could be worthwhile following up?
Again, thank you.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 12, 2016 11:25:47 GMT 12
I can think of no reason for a censor to wipe out part of a roundel and leave all the other roundel bars untouched. It has to be like that on the aeroplane itself and it looks to me like the area has been patched and resprayed. If you do have access to a higher resolution copy David I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 12, 2016 11:35:36 GMT 12
Have these appeared in the thread before?
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chook
Flying Officer
Posts: 64
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Post by chook on Jan 12, 2016 11:57:39 GMT 12
Thanks for posting Dave, I have seen sections of the top video before but not as good quality, that great. The P-40 pilot starting the aircraft at 0.35 is apparently Ronald Bremner of 18 Squadron during the Squadrons 1st tour. I showed it to Ron's surviving brother Kelvin who remembered it from "back in the day". Ron recorded the event in his diary and had apparently won the part by the drawing of cards. Top stuff.
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Post by komata on Jan 12, 2016 13:19:37 GMT 12
Dave H. Thanks for finding and posting those two clips. FWIW: I believe that the top clip was part of an 'official' newsreel and as such had sound attached.
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Post by Ian Warren on Jan 12, 2016 14:26:52 GMT 12
Pleased to show the interesting footage showing the Goodyear F2G teardrop Corsair with only a handful built, only 10, would have to make this late 1945.
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Post by Ian Warren on Jan 12, 2016 14:29:15 GMT 12
Dave H. Thanks for finding and posting those two clips. FWIW: I believe that the top clip was part of an 'official' newsreel and as such had sound attached. Very sure the Wigram museum has a regular run off this video with sound and commentary. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 12, 2016 17:30:11 GMT 12
Pleased to show the interesting footage showing the Goodyear F2G teardrop Corsair with only a handful built, only 10, would have to make this late 1945. That is not an F2G and it's not 1945. |
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Post by davidd on Jan 12, 2016 22:07:16 GMT 12
Dave H,
I obtained the serial numbers of the P-40s returning to NZ from the Operations Record Books of the returning squadrons, also some information from the histories of the respective Servicing Units. I believe that all the P-40s shown in the photograph have normal serial numbers, but in some angles of light, the serials almost disappear because the paint used to apply the numbers was semi-gloss. There is no easy way of working out which cowling code letter or number relates to which serial number, as they were assigned in order of allotment of the aircraft to the Servicing Units, and although the engineer officer of the SU, as well as perhaps the operations officers would have had lists of these relationships, there was no pressing requirement for them to retain these details for the likes of us enthusiast types 70 years later! Usually the only things that were censored from wartime photographs of aircraft were locations of machine guns and more importantly, radar aerials. However later in the war these were not of any great concern as dozens of these aircraft types ended up shot down and/or crashed in enemy territory, so could be studied by their technical experts at their leisure. The code letters supplied by Dave H are perfectly valid for the very early P-40Ns, but these aircraft had been either already shot down or crashed, or returned to NZ by the time these later aircraft turned up. A lot of these earlier code letters and numbers are known from various sources, but the later aircraft are very much a mystery.
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 12, 2016 23:02:14 GMT 12
Sadly no NZ32xx numbered P-40's appear on Ron Hildreth's list that links them to the letter code. All his are NZ31xx serials.
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Post by davidd on Jan 13, 2016 8:34:22 GMT 12
Dave H,
Where is the "Ron Hildreth list"? Was this original research, or has he trawled the internet for them? (Not that there is anything invalid or immoral about that).
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 13, 2016 20:12:36 GMT 12
He noted the numbers and codes down at the time when he worked on the Servicing Unit, I believe. He later added the list into his memoirs and I have a copy. I'll send you his list.
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Post by Brenton on Feb 6, 2016 22:16:34 GMT 12
 
These photos are of the same plane I believe. NZ3067. P-40M-5 21783 43-5495 - Assembled by No.1 Aircraft Depot, Hobsonville and BoC at Hobsonville on 13 March 1943.
To No.2 OTU, Ohakea.
Sold to J. Larsen from Rukuhia on 02 March 1948.
It was involved in a prang with NZ4047(a Hudson) Apr 2, 1942.......(the Hudson)was W/o when struck from behind by taxiing Kittyhawk NZ3067 Jul 20, 1943
and suffered major damage. |
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Post by scottjackson on Aug 27, 2016 19:08:20 GMT 12
I have an Report accident on Aircraft NZ3223 it was apart of the No.1 SU in 4 feb 1944.
flown by the No.14 (F) squadron. Does anyone else know anything about this Aircraft ?
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Post by davidd on Aug 28, 2016 11:21:55 GMT 12
Re the earlier video clip of 16 Squadron from Woodbourne, and stated to be taken "1942". I am pleased to report that this sequence was shot on a known date (9th March 1943) which also explains the interesting roundels, etc. The operations record book of 16 Squadron for this date states:- "No. 16 Squadron made its 'film debut' today when five sqdn pilots and Kittyhawks proceeded to Ohakea where filming took place against the background of Mount Tongariro. Pilots were F/L J D Robins, F/O A J Hyams, F/O S R Duncan, P/O D L Jones, and Sgt R A Blair. The five Kittyhawks were ordered from Fairhall on 4/3/43 to give some of the Sgt pilots some formation practise, and learned about the filming on arrival. However filming put back to 9th March, and P-40s went back to Fairhall." I hasten to add that I have added the pilots' full initials for information, as none were included in the ORB. Of the 5 pilots named, two were lost on operations (Hyams, Jones) and Sholto Duncan was lost in the October 1953 Devon collision at Wigram.
A far better version of this film should be available with NZ Film Archives - I imagine it was probably put out in April or May 1943?
David D
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 13:43:31 GMT 12
A couple of long shots: Are there any photos of P-40E NZ3094 (now in Oz) in NZ markings?* And does anyone have any further info - or even photos - concerning NZ3074, the sole P-40L to receive an NZ serial? It was sent here by mistake (would love to hear more about that!) and was replaced by an N. The former NZ3074 was later involved in an accident on take-off in the US. *I may have answered my own question by starting at Page 1 of this very thread! Here are some that John Saunders has sent me to post. They also need to be credited to the Air Force Museum of New Zealand.  |
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Post by komata on Oct 7, 2016 8:51:46 GMT 12
Concerning two RNZAF P-40's appearing in a facebook image:
On Facebook there is a site titled 'Corsair of the Day'; which literally puts up images of F4-U's of all variants (including the occasional RNZAF machine) on a daily basis. No doubt some of the membership are already aware of the site's existence. For today (7 October 2016) , the image is of a 'colorised' (Hand-tinted) US F4U-1D. However two RNZAF P-40's (P450-N-25's?) also appear within the image. While only the wing of one of these is shown in the RH foreground, another P-40 is clearly visible in the background. This latter a/c has white tailfeathers and appears to carry the cowling code '65' indicating an 18 SQN machine at Torokina in 1944. While the image itself is nicely coloured, the RNZAF national markings are unfortunately incorrect, with the roundels carrying a red centre instead of the correct blue that we are familar with.
No doubt some of the membership will already be familar with this image, although regrettably, I cannot copy the F/B image to this page to bring it to the attention of a wider audience. Perhaps someone else may be able to, in the hope that a positive identification of this specific aircraft can be made.
As it may be of interest, submitted FWIW.
Thanks.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 7, 2016 9:30:25 GMT 12
Do you mean this photo? Although I do not see '65' on the cowl, and either way that does not indicate any particular squadron as the aeroplanes were not owned by squadrons, they belonged to Servicing Units, and those with numbers on the cowls were most probably belonging to No. 2 Servicing Unit.  |
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Post by komata on Oct 7, 2016 12:00:35 GMT 12
Thank you Dave; exactly, that is the image I was referring-to. . Glad you could copy and paste it. The 18 SQN reference was occasioned by the fact that other 18 SQN a/c apparently carried numbers on their cowlings. Thank you for the correction about the SU. I had forgotten taht the RAF and RNZAF did things differently.
In respect of the possible '65' on the P-40's cowling: This appears forward of the Corsair's fin, between it and the canopy. To me the first character is a '6' with that to its right being possibly the vertical stroke of a '5'. Equally, however it could be something else. As there can only be 11 possibilities (60, 61, etc.), and if we know the '6' part of the number, can the identity of that particular 'Kitty be established with any degree of certainty? Presumably 2 SU records are available?
Thanks.
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