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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 7, 2016 12:22:42 GMT 12
If there was numbers on their cowling it just meant they were using No. 2 SU Kittyhawks/Warhawks. Many squadrons used them over the 1943-44 period.
That first digit looks like a '5' to me, rather than a '6'.
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Post by camtech on Oct 7, 2016 13:18:43 GMT 12
Dave, it is definitely a '6' for the first digit - look closely young man!
Thinking of the style of numbering, the odds are that the second digit is a '5'.
Whatever the no. is, it only tells us, as you suggest, that the aircraft was from 2SU.
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Post by komata on Oct 7, 2016 13:25:04 GMT 12
Thank you for the 2 SU 'pooling' information, on the basis of which we will never know which aircraft that particular one was. In the absence of additional information we therefore seem to have reached the end of the investigation.
FWIW, in respect of the cowling number I initially also thought that the first digit was a '5' until I noticed that it curved around to the left, something that most '5's don't do. A '6' would seem to be the obvious alternative.
(Camtech, thank you for the confirmation BTW).
If only the photographer had moved a little to the right...
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Post by camtech on Oct 7, 2016 13:28:53 GMT 12
If only he had waited for the F4U to taxy past!!!!!!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 7, 2016 14:41:00 GMT 12
Sorry chaps, now that I have found a decent untampered version, it does seem to be a stencilled '6'  The aircraft may be: NZ3165 which was coded "60" NZ3061 which was coded "61" but that was a P-40K NZ3152 which was coded "61" NZ3175 which was coded "65" NZ3173 which was coded "66" NZ3199 which was coded "69" I think we can rule out: NZ3162 which was coded "62" NZ3176 which was coded "64" NZ3190 which was coded "67" |
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Post by komata on Oct 7, 2016 14:53:54 GMT 12
After rechecking VERY closely (hi-res magnifying glass), I would suggest that the second number is a '5', making the aircraft NZ3175. The second number doesn't have the same slight curve at the top that the visible '6' does, while if it were a '1' the cross-stroke would be lower. As the alternative '6'would have the same curve, and the '9' is essentially an 'inverted' '6', the 'curve' would be similar.
Any advances on this suggestion??
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 7, 2016 18:43:29 GMT 12
The Corair is well documented as being operated by VMF-214 (The Black Sheep Squadron).
So VMF-214 were at Guadalcanal from August 1943 till January 1944.
NZ3175 was brought on strength at Hobsonville on 16 August 1943. It crashed on 17 December 1943.
F/Lt John McFarlane was killed in the crash and he was with No. 16 Squadron. When killed the squadron was based at Ondonga, New Georgia, and they'd been there since 16 August 1943.
Both No.'s 2 and 4 Servicing Units formed at New Georgia in October 1943. Later they both moved up to Torokina, Bougainville in February 1944. Before October 1943 they had been Maintenance Units, and No's 1, 2, 3 and 4 MU's respectively were only attached to No's 14, 15, 16 and 17 Squadrons as they were the only four squadrons that had moved to the Forward Area at that time. These four MU's merged to become the two SU's I believe (DavidD will correct me if that's wrong).
As far as I can find VMF-214 was never based at New Georgia, though their aircraft passed through Munda and possibly Ondonga for refuelling. So if that is actually NZ3175 "65" of No. 2 SU, it is between October 1943 and 17 December 1943, and during a slim chance meeting with a Guadalcanal based Black Sheep Corsair, somewhere.
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Post by davidd on Oct 8, 2016 18:06:12 GMT 12
I was just as intrigued by the push bike - cannot recall ever having seen such a machine being used in the forward area, although there is absolutely no reason why not, and this photo proves that they were. Wonder if it is an RNZAF one? Push bikes were favourites within the RNZAF, probably from pre-war (WW2 that is) days, and were still in use at the RNZAF Museum till the 1990s at least. However I have seen a photo in a wartime "Contact" magazine of an airman astride a type of motor scooter of which I am not familiar, although it was pretty distinctive. The article was a fairly late wartime one, about RNZAF MT, and also had a photograph of the converted GMC (3-axle) truck used as an aircraft engine test bed at Rukuhia (and postwar had a long and productive life at NAC (and Air NZ) at Harewood. tsting mostly P&W R-1830s, and other lesser engines). It was subsequently sold off, but has turned up at the RNZAF Museum very recently from storage at Weedons, having been acquired quite some years ago, and in less than perfect condition (although that is how the Museum received it.)
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 8, 2016 20:18:32 GMT 12
That's a really good point, I cannot recall seeing a 'treddly' as the RNZAF call bicycles in the Pacific forward area photos either. I guess the mud may have been a factor, but perhaps also because there were a lot more jeeps to go around?
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Post by planecrazy on May 31, 2017 22:10:22 GMT 12
Been going through some old slides, the late Col Pay’s P40e at Richmond, Sydney Australia some time in the early 90's this is the one that got me really interested in the mighty P40, still air worthy with the Stone Henge Air Museum in Montana ,USA.  A Canadian P-40E Hawk 87A-3 c/n 15133 AK752 had been buried on a farm in Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada in 1952 and then uncovered again in 1975. The P-40 was 80% complete and had very little corrosion evident. The P-40 was acquired by veteran USA P-40 restoration expert John Paul and then in 1976 it passed on to Steve Seghetti of Vacaville, CA, USA who commenced a lengthy restoration of the aircraft, however after considerable work on the aircraft being completed Col Pay purchased the aircraft in 1985 and spent the next 4 years completing the restoration. Col already had a collection of P-40 components which assisted in the restoration, however there was a lot of work required to complete the aircraft and its systems. Although much of the work done in the USA was satisfactory it still had to be checked over and verified. Eventually the wings, empennage and fuselage were complete and the Allison V-1710-39 liquid-cooled V12 engine was fitted and the aircraft painted. The color scheme chosen for the P-40 was also unusual. Instead of going for a P-40E RAAF scheme Col opted for the original scheme the aircraft had worn in Canada with the RCAF in the Western Air Command in the period 1942 to 1945 with 132 Sqn coded as “ZR-J”. The aircraft had also worn the 133 Sqn markings “FN-H” during its service. Finally on 15 December 1989, the aircraft was completed and made its first flight in 45 years in the hands of Col Pay. This was the first P-40 Kittyhawk to fly in Australia since WWII and was registered as VH-KTH. |
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Post by planecrazy on Jul 10, 2017 23:04:26 GMT 12
The current Pay P40 Ex RNZAF P40 NZ3094 had her engine out for inspection which is being performed in house, she is painted up as a RAAF 3 Squadron aeroplane.   |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2017 8:27:05 GMT 12
As I said elsewhere, it really is great to see NZ3094. I've not seen any photos of it in some time and it's great to hear the engine's being worked on. I'd love to see it return to NZ one day, or even just RNZAF colours, but it's been pointed out to me she has Bobby Gibbes' autograph on one panel. I don't think I could ever condone that being erased or covered!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 16:00:16 GMT 12
Will our digitals be as well preserved in 70 years. This seems like an appropriate quote to resurrect this thread and point out, sadly, that Photobucket's foot-shooting exercise has robbed us of many great photos in this thread. Hopefully they can be reposted when time allows. And does anyone have any further info - or even photos - concerning NZ3074, the sole P-40L to receive an NZ serial? It was sent here by mistake (would love to hear more about that!) and was replaced by an N. The former NZ3074 was later involved in an accident on take-off in the US. I've found myself with a 1/48 P-40L fuselage and it'd be cool to do it as NZ3074. Any chance there's a photo out there? And are there any photos of NZ3009 as she was in service? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2017 16:42:20 GMT 12
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 19:17:42 GMT 12
And does anyone have any further info - or even photos - concerning NZ3074, the sole P-40L to receive an NZ serial? It was sent here by mistake I've found myself with a 1/48 P-40L fuselage and it'd be cool to do it as NZ3074. Any chance there's a photo out there? Having started listening to the latest WONZ show: who has the one photo of NZ3074? |
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Post by davidd on Sept 1, 2017 20:11:33 GMT 12
Zac,
The one and only photo of the RNZAF's sole P-40L that I have ever heard of was in the possession of the late Ross McPherson of NZ Wings fame, who loaned his only copy (why did he not just send him a copy!) to somebody in Australia for a publication. This nice person decided to keep it for himself, and it has never appeared in any publication. From what I can gather this was not a great shot anyway, but the serial number was definitely visible, which was why Ross eventually checked up on the aircraft and realized that it was our sole Merlin P-40. It is possible that the nose area was not even visible in the photo.
David D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 20:28:34 GMT 12
My heart broke when I heard that, David! Did Ross ever tell you anything of what it looked like - any idea of the camouflage, if it got RNZAF roundels?
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Post by davidd on Sept 1, 2017 21:58:00 GMT 12
Sorry Zac,
About all I remember was that he did not realize for quite a while that there was something unusual about that P-40, but it was only when he looked up what model 3074 was that the penny dropped - in other words he had not noticed anything out of the ordinary in his initial glances at this picture. As I said, I am not certain if the characteristic nose shape of the Merlin-engine variants was even visible in the pic, although the serial number definitely was. This must have been 30 or more years ago when I used to visit the Macpherson household at Otaki during my infrequent visits to National Archives in Wellington.
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 1, 2017 22:42:20 GMT 12
To be honest I did not think that Judy Pay's P-40F looked much different from a P-40E when I saw it, you had to look really hard to notice the difference in shape. It's hardly like a Buchon vs Bf109. Same goes for the P-40L. So I can see where Ross was coming from, and I can see why it mistakenly could get put on the boat with all the P-40K's or M's and not be noticed. This is a P-40L  |
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Post by baz62 on Sept 2, 2017 13:48:30 GMT 12
The way to tell at a glance if it's an Allison or Merlin P40 is the Allison P40s had a top nose scoop whereas the Merlin P40 doesn't. Head on the lower scoop is a lot bigger on the Merlin P40 but at a glance is similar.
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