dgrev
Leading Aircraftman
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Post by dgrev on Mar 27, 2017 22:37:43 GMT 12
Ansett pilot with one of the first Kiwi Harvards was Bruce Andrews. His was one of two that arrived together at Mascot. In fact, I am sure that they were the first to arrive here as I managed to convince Channel 7 it would make a good news story so I went up with them and did some stills for Aeroplane Monthly. Bruce was later involved as a principal in the Aero Heritage B.25 that came to Oz (remarkable story that one) and also later had one of the Baghdad Furies which I put markings on one day at Bankstown. It was the first and best of the blue RANFAA Sea Furys. I got a ride in the B-25 they had 2 seat pads mounted on the main spar just aft of the belly crew hatch, swapped a ride for it in my M3A1 Stuart tank. Pilot was Jack ........ big bloke with a beard. He had a Hawker Hart or something like that under restoration? Bruce Andrews - I remember that name, but don't think he is the one. Dredging the memory cells I remember now that the bloke I am thinking of had a Thorp T-18 VH-IXI. Regards Doug |
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Post by kevsmith on Mar 27, 2017 23:24:12 GMT 12
The big bloke with the beard was more than likely Jack MacDonald given the reference to the Hawker Hart. Jack flew from Essendon for Brain and Brown Air Freighters who had 3 DC3 freighters, VH-BAA, BAB and BAM, and later for IPEC on the Argosy when they absorbed Brain and Brown. I don't recall if he also flew the DC9-33 Freighters when IPEC had those. He also used to display a Mustang at Air Shows but I can't remember who the owner of that was.
Bruce Andrews was an Ansett pilot and used to keep the Sea Fury in the Ansett Hangar at Melbourne (Tullamarine) Airport prior to the 1989 dispute.
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dgrev
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 8
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Post by dgrev on Mar 27, 2017 23:37:18 GMT 12
One thing that always gave me great confidence with the Harvard was the crash cage. Looking at some
of the photos people have posted in this thread does make me now feel that confidence was probably
a fool's paradise. Sobering sight when you see a nearly perfectly flat Harvard!
Another issue we had with ours was corrosion on the tank doors. I remember Dad bought new
external ribs and was going to fabricate the doors. But when he got the ribs and not being
able to get the drawings he baulked. In the end he got a complete set of doors from the USA. IIRC
they came by post, couldn't have been cheap, but would be a bargain compared to what
all the Post Offices are charging these days for international mail.
Something most people don't realise is there is a tube installed across the
fuselage, down and rearwards from the cargo bay. If they do, they assume this is for a pole to be inserted to
lift the fuselage up and support it on trestles. Which is a valid use.
It is also for providing a really good means of anchoring the fuselage for mooring. Much better
than trying to tie down with a rope around the tail wheel leg.
One thing puzzled us no end when we first got the Harvard. On the RHS of the coaming in both
cockpits was a yellow painted stubby wooden handled knife with a very blunt blade in a set of clips. Attached was a length of cord
more accurately described as thick string securing them to the coaming. They had bronze blades and appeared to
be functionally useless. Nothing was mentioned in any of the manuals we had.
It was only when talking to the RNZAF instructors at an air show (the blokes who warned Dad about never trying to save a landing) that the
mystery was solved.
They are Dinghy Knives.
For you to take with you in the event of ditching?
Nope.
For you to carry out a frenzied attack on your dinghy should it accidentally inflate in flight and before it filled
the cockpit, forced the stick all the way forward and incapacitated you! No doubt there is a disturbing history to that modification.
Regards
Doug
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Post by Mustang51 on Mar 28, 2017 7:54:20 GMT 12
dgrev,
That certainly would have been Jack Mac flying the B.25. He did fly it quite a bit. He also has - working on it now - a Hawker Demon and there were three of us initially in the rebuild of the RAAF Museum machine - the wonderful Ron Gretton being the RAAF officer at the Museum - and Jack's aircraft. Jack's Demon actually 'started' in the kitchen of my new flat just before I was married when I asked him what aircraft he would most like to fly..." Hawker Demon but there aren't any around...". To which I replied that I knew where there was wing and numerous new wing ribs plus I knew of the location of parts etc in the UK. That started the project just after the RAAF Museum had recovered their crash remains from Tasmania.
Bruce Andrews was one of the founding members of Aero Heritage together with Randal McFarlane, another (name just escapes me - that's bad!) and myself. That project also started in a kitchen..... that time being Randal's in Maroubra when he and I had returned from the CAF Catalina at Kingsford Smith airport. Funny how kitchens and a beer or two seem to have this galvanizing affect. For a bit more of the history of the B.25 try and find the documentary "Ghosts of the Sky"
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Post by NZ1009 on Mar 28, 2017 8:45:57 GMT 12
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dgrev
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 8
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Post by dgrev on Mar 28, 2017 9:03:04 GMT 12
Mustang51. True about the solo weights. I did not mention them as I do not know if they are an approved item or an unauthorised item.
Good photos, thanks.
Regards
Doug
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Post by Peter Lewis on Mar 28, 2017 16:44:44 GMT 12
One thing puzzled us no end when we first got the Harvard. On the RHS of the coaming in both
cockpits was a yellow painted stubby wooden handled knife with a very blunt blade in a set of clips. Attached was a length of cord
more accurately described as thick string securing them to the coaming. They had bronze blades and appeared to
be functionally useless. Nothing was mentioned in any of the manuals we had.
It was only when talking to the RNZAF instructors at an air show (the blokes who warned Dad about never trying to save a landing) that the
mystery was solved.
They are Dinghy Knives.
For you to take with you in the event of ditching?
Nope.
For you to carry out a frenzied attack on your dinghy should it accidentally inflate in flight and before it filled
the cockpit, forced the stick all the way forward and incapacitated you! No doubt there is a disturbing history to that modification.
Regards
DougVery true. In one of Clapshaws books he discusses this very problem. After a couple of mysterious RAF Vampire crashes they finally identified this as the cause, and all the Vampire pilots were then issued with knives 'just in case'. |
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dgrev
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 8
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Post by dgrev on Mar 28, 2017 22:08:06 GMT 12
Is it correct that when it was grounded (for money reasons) the wings were deliberately pulled off in such a way that the spars were damaged beyond repair so that there was no possibility of it becoming airworthy again without a replacement set of wings? The story went round the war bird community at the time and there was a lot of ill feeling about it.
I heard later that it was sold back to some Yanks and they got it flying again?
You never know what to believe when there is no communication coming out of the owner.
They do weird stuff eg. anniversary of WW1, but the WW1 female tank has been removed from public view??? Why do that?
A front turret on display next to the Lanc, but the placard states it is a rear turret. Blind Freddy can see that it never was and never could be a rear turret, totally wrong shape....
you only need to look up at that huge 4 engine thing sitting next to it and see its clone at the front end and a totally different turret at the back end, but that information placard
has been there for at least 2 years.
I can't figure them out.
Getting back to Harvards, there is a Wirraway on display, really interesting to compare to the Harvard - effectively they are both off-spring of an earlier design = NA-16. It does seem that there is a high degree of similarity between Harvard and Wirraway, but doubtless not a lot of parts interchangeability. Someone once told me that the Harvard design corrected some less than desireable handling characteristics of the NA-16 but that the Wirraway less so?
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Post by Mustang51 on Mar 29, 2017 6:59:16 GMT 12
Harvard (BC-2) introduced wing washout which the Wirraway did not possess so tended to drop a wing low and slow.... not desirable! Wirraway from the outset had two forward firing guns while the "NA-16" had one. NA-16 design was refined quite a bit and here in Oz we obtained both retractable and fixed gear variants to decide on which to build. At Temora we have often flown both the Wirraway and one of the visiting Harvards together to show the differences between the types..... now all I have to organize is a Wirraway, Harvard, Boomerang, Ceres formation to complete the development line.
Dave. B-25 was sold and a sorry tale it is also.
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Post by Mustang51 on Apr 3, 2017 16:42:17 GMT 12
BTW, anyone know anything about NZ999 as mentioned by Dave? rumours, innuendo, gossip, plain stories or the like? And no, I won't believe that Harold Holt flew off in her!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 3, 2017 18:27:24 GMT 12
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mgr
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 8
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Post by mgr on Apr 20, 2017 0:05:47 GMT 12
Hiya Guys, Greeting from up and above :-) For a Flightsim repaint of A2A's Harvard i'm looking for the serial of this bird:  For that matter is there somewere a code/serial list of the 2th OTU "FE" coded Harvards? Regards, Marcel The Netherlands |
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mgr
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 8
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Post by mgr on Apr 23, 2017 2:50:43 GMT 12
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Post by Ian Warren on Apr 23, 2017 11:43:14 GMT 12
Hi ya Marcel, looking Great, currently away from my place for at least a week, fingers crossed I can match the fuselage code to a listing I have.
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Post by davidd on Apr 23, 2017 13:28:19 GMT 12
I am not aware of any definitive, or even partial, list of 2 OTU's Harvards and their respective code letters. Perhaps would also pay to study differences in details of individual aircraft, as these were sometimes specific to particular versions, other times not, and over time these could also change with major (postwar) modification schemes. For instance FE-G has the later (NZ968 and up to 1005) Mk. II features (some shared also by Mk. IIA, III), such as aerial mast, rear-most cockpit enclosure, plus wartime mods such as external gunsight, and light series bomb carriers, probably also two wing guns. Type of roundels can also sometimes provide useful clues, as can the type of provision for front fuselage gun (not used on our 1942 Harvard "fighter" configuration). If I have any of these wrong, speak up! (Any comments Mr Saunders?)
David D
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Post by madmax on Apr 23, 2017 17:08:52 GMT 12
I have a colour transparency of NZ1016 taken at Rongotai circa 1956.
Can anyone tell me the history/fate of this aircraft.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 12:26:09 GMT 12
From NZDF-Serials(http://www.adf-serials.com.au/nz-serials/nzharvard.htm):
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Post by madmax on Apr 24, 2017 13:09:03 GMT 12
Previously EX194. From RAF/FAA lend-lease allocations.
Shipped to New Zealand on "Waiotapu" in September 1942 and assembled at Hobsonville.
BOC 22 September 1942. With No.4 (TAF) Squadron March 1949-18 October 1951.
With No.1 (TAF) Squadron 12 December 1951-10 July 1952.
Fourth Mk IIA to be converted to Mk 2A* between August 1954 and May 1957.
To storage at Wigram July 1962.
Declared surplus and disposed of through GSB tender 26 October 1962.
No further details known.
Thanks for that ZacYates. Hopefully it is preserved/flying somewhere
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Post by Damon on May 11, 2017 20:54:12 GMT 12
I recall the PA-18 also having heal brakes, requiring you to dislocate your ankles to operate at times. Great stories dgrev .
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Post by NZ1009 on May 12, 2017 18:42:27 GMT 12
I don't log on very often but did recently and discovered the following message from goosehunter1955 re Birdlings Flat (putting it in this thread as sort of Harvard related):
Hi, just following up on an old Post of yours regarding the Base at Birdlings Flat. There are still a number of buildings from the original Base still there and being used. The larger Barracks and kitchen Block that can he seen as an I or H shape is about half it's original size and currently used as a woolshed and accommodation during the duckshooting season. Further down the Spit is another Building that I own and use for fishing and shooting, to one side of it used to be a Control Tower built on large wooden piles ( until someone cut it down and took the wood away )
In some areas where the sand is now settling down, some items of interest, such as fins from mortor shells, and perhaps bombs come to the surface, in an area obviously used as a dumping pit.
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