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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 30, 2014 18:58:34 GMT 12
Here's the question from the Parliamentary website, Roly:
Hon PHIL GOFF to the Minister of Defence: Why did he decide to source new training aircraft for the Royal New Zealand Air Force from Wichita Kansas rather than Hamilton New Zealand despite a 40-year relationship with the New Zealand company, Pacific Aerospace?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 30, 2014 19:00:34 GMT 12
Simple answer, Pacific Aerospace don't built Texan II's
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Post by corsair67 on Jan 30, 2014 19:05:10 GMT 12
Did you hear the question Mr Goff asked Dr Coleman this afternoon? It was a classic - "how many jobs in the production will be lost from Pacific Aerospace because of the decision of the defence force to purchase their training aircraft offshore (or something like that) - or didn't he even bother to ask?" What - I would suggest that the Minister should have given the obvious answer; that he didn't think he needed to ask the question because the answer is clearly none! If a new CT-4 hasn't been sold in over tn years what have all their production people been doing since then. Sitting on their jacksies - or probably more truthfully building their other products - so the decision to buy offshore means there is zero impact on PACL's production force. Either that or the company has money to burn to pay people to sit around waiting for a sale a decade or more later! Tarting up the CT-4 is putting lipstick on a pig. Scurvy breaks out on transit flights because its so slow and take forever to get anywhere. It hasn't got the performance or systems (e.g oxygen!) to get above the weather if required; it cant meet modern Airways requirements like PBN. Its an old design that has had its day - modern requirements have passed it by. Its kinda like riding a moped - sure its fun, but you don't want anyone to see you doing it The ADF have a pilot training tender out at the moment - have PACL bid for that? If not why not - they too are using the CT4 s the arguments they try to make for the NZDF to use their product surely apply to the ADF as well do they not - or is that the real world over there - not being propped up by the NZ taxpayer. I sick of this sour grapes 'run to daddy' approach PACL seem to be taking on this. Man up and move on I say. Sorry to burst your bubble...........but PAC (in conjunction with Raytheon) did try and get a foothold into the RAAF pilot training tender process in 2007 - by pitching the re-engined, glass cockpit CT-4F Akala alongside the Hawker Beechcraft T-6B as part of a complete training package: www.aerospace.co.nz/files/dmfile/CT-4FAustralianAviationFlightReview.pdf
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roly
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 9
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Post by roly on Jan 30, 2014 19:25:20 GMT 12
Bubble not burst I was fully aware of the CT-4F back in '07 - made one prototype and no-one wanted it. That is my point - what product have they got to offer that anyone wants? The CMC 4000 suite that was fitted to the CT-4F is the same as the T-6B/C - so there is a logic to that as a proposal ; but when Raytheon became Beechcraft for some reason that relationship was lost and the CMC 4000 isn't a runner in the CT4 as far as I know. Wikipedia lists some mythical beast that is the CT-4G - a CT-4E with a Garmin 1000 avionics suite. Cant find any reference to it on the PACL site - nor any mention of it on the type certificate for the CT-4 on the NZ CAA site - so as far as I'm concerned that means it doesn't exist in a certified state. Maybe the cost of the CMC4000 is too much? I don't know. The competition is still going on, they released a tender not long ago. So the question remains; is the CT-4 in any way in with any chance in Oz? If not, why should we consider vapourware?
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Post by exkiwiforces on Jan 30, 2014 19:39:36 GMT 12
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Post by beagle on Jan 30, 2014 19:41:12 GMT 12
jankers for you, spud peeling and pot scrubbing for 2 weeks......
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roly
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 9
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Post by roly on Jan 30, 2014 19:51:01 GMT 12
exkiwiforces - bravo Sir - that link made my day! I'll do your spuds for you to keep Beagle happy
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 30, 2014 19:56:02 GMT 12
Beagle is Duty NCO tonight. Any complaints?
As he says, please keep this thread on topic, any further meandering on the transport replacement should be done so on the appropriate thread - which was linked to further back in this thread by the way, I think.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 30, 2014 20:10:33 GMT 12
Who is the McHale Group referred to by the Minister of Defence in that first answer? Are the experts in military procurement?
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Post by exkiwiforces on Jan 30, 2014 20:19:00 GMT 12
Who is the McHale Group referred to by the Minister of Defence in that first answer? Are the experts in military procurement? Have you tried Uncle Google?
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Post by beagle on Jan 30, 2014 20:22:16 GMT 12
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Post by exkiwiforces on Jan 30, 2014 20:44:32 GMT 12
jankers for you, spud peeling and pot scrubbing for 2 weeks...... Funny that, how about I shout you a couple rounds at your local or club as I'm going to be home on 27 Feb for 7days and I understand you live in CHCH?
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Post by beagle on Jan 30, 2014 21:01:24 GMT 12
not Christchurch, but Rolleston will be away on holiday but will check again
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Post by exkiwiforces on Jan 30, 2014 21:08:20 GMT 12
I was close, jezz I haven't to the Rollie pub in years will since 1997 when I was made up to L/CPL.
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Post by beagle on Jan 30, 2014 21:13:40 GMT 12
a few bars here now and word is a speights ale house this year. even have a mc donalds
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Post by exkiwiforces on Jan 30, 2014 21:19:39 GMT 12
a few bars here now and word is a speights ale house this year. even have a mc donalds Bloody hell, mind you I do with a real beer unlike the crap I have to put with where I am at the moment, it's bit drinking that crap called Waikato Beer.
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Post by beagle on Jan 30, 2014 21:21:55 GMT 12
population is just over 10 000 oops off thread, sorry team
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dodgy
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 90
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Post by dodgy on Jan 31, 2014 7:54:17 GMT 12
Well, the displays may be more interesting once the Texan replaces the CT4. I am probably going to get shot down in saying this, but I always found the CT4 about as sexy and interesting as a Piper Tomahawk. Seeing those things line up gave me the opportunity go go and get some food/coffee, take a slash until the warbird aircraft were up.
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Post by phil on Jan 31, 2014 8:54:13 GMT 12
Well, the displays may be more interesting once the Texan replaces the CT4. I am probably going to get shot down in saying this, but I always found the CT4 about as sexy and interesting as a Piper Tomahawk. Seeing those things line up gave me the opportunity go go and get some food/coffee, take a slash until the warbird aircraft were up. +1
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Post by SEAN on Jan 31, 2014 9:36:36 GMT 12
Just found these old photo's from 1995 I had, quite interesting..... (RNZAF Official)
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