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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Jul 6, 2018 23:23:25 GMT 12
The claim made in an article today that the climate change consideration is new and was not considered by the previous government in the last White Paper surprised me, because I definitely remember reading about it in the past (circa late 2016) as being a new and major consideration for the NZDF. It's bollocks of course, but if it helps get Defence some better equipment, more power to them. It's actually not bollocks, because as climate change has an effect on the world's resources, there is a high probability of instability and possibly even wars over those resources. Insurance companies “get it” and now the military does too. But what is interesting is that the Pentagon sees climate change as being a real security issue, whereas President Dumb is denying climate change. I wonder who will win that battle? |
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Post by isc on Jul 6, 2018 23:30:09 GMT 12
With the amount of fresh water getting shipped out these days, perhaps that is what we need to defend.
I remember 20 or thirty years ago someone saying that the next war would be for water. isc
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Post by saratoga on Jul 6, 2018 23:31:03 GMT 12
Sorry, I don't think 4 P8s and a handful of second hand C-130Js is going to save NZ from the ravenous hoards.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 6, 2018 23:45:37 GMT 12
The claim made in an article today that the climate change consideration is new and was not considered by the previous government in the last White Paper surprised me, because I definitely remember reading about it in the past (circa late 2016) as being a new and major consideration for the NZDF. It's bollocks of course, but if it helps get Defence some better equipment, more power to them. It's actually not bollocks, because as climate change has an effect on the world's resources, there is a high probability of instability and possibly even wars over those resources. No, I did not mean that climate change and its effects are bollocks. I mean the politics being played to get the idiot Green party muppets onboard this purchase by dangling the climate change carrot is bollocks. The politicians each have to have their own narrow minded agendas ticked so they can sit back satisfied. Erghhh. |
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nazgul
Leading Aircraftman
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Post by nazgul on Jul 7, 2018 9:05:01 GMT 12
It's actually not bollocks, because as climate change has an effect on the world's resources, there is a high probability of instability and possibly even wars over those resources. Insurance companies “get it” and now the military does too. But what is interesting is that the Pentagon sees climate change as being a real security issue, whereas President Dumb is denying climate change. I wonder who will win that battle? Rather than conflict, perhaps the climate change issues are more to do with the increasing risks of natural disasters in New Zealand and the South Pacific and the need for the NZDF to be 'first responders'? For the Navy, there's also the impact on their operations closer to Antarctica (higher sea states and more floating ice). This article in Stuff gave me a good sense of why climate change was cited: www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/105298166/global-warming-is-happening-defence-adds-climate-change-issues-to-its-strategy-for-the-first-time |
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Post by beagle on Jul 7, 2018 10:50:34 GMT 12
So the next question is going to be, the Sqn moving to Ohakea. They will be keen to take on operating a new aircraft etc, but the main thing, will be their wives who might have pretty high paying jobs in and around Auckland, and the kids who are in good schools etc.
Will we see quite a few aircrew maybe coming home in the weekends to Auckland and living in the mess during the week.
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Post by No longer identifiable on Jul 7, 2018 10:52:11 GMT 12
I also welcome the new defence paper and its attention to the changes that climate change are bringing (and I won’t even attempt to waste my time trying to convince some that it is a “real thing”).
I’ve thought for years now that one of the biggest threats to international stability would be the large-scale movement of people seeking a better life (or even any life at all), and the increasing world population and changing climate patterns that disrupt traditional food-growing is making this more and more likely. Allied to this are the small-scale wars over resources, especially food, that exacerbate an already bad situation, and you have the trigger for migrants to take huge risks in seeking a better life.
Note that I’m not saying climate change is the driving force behind our defence acquisitions, but factoring-in the indirect consequences for NZ is a big step in the right direction.
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Post by tbf25o4 on Jul 7, 2018 11:43:00 GMT 12
In the grand scheme of things to come.
I understand that the P8A may not be able to operate from Whenuapai's current runways at MAUW.
Solution.
1. As the main user of 40 squadron is the Army now centered at Linton, move 40 squadron to Ohakea, (the old 75 squadron hangar can be utilised)
2. When the P8's are delivered move 5 Squadron to Ohakea, (transit time OH-Auckland area for a p8 is around 40 minutes so not reducing overall
range significantly.
3. With that achieved, move 6 squadron to NZAA or to the Naval Base (new hangar and office accommodation required)
4. Close Whenuapai and use the land for more affordable housing, using some of the existing domestic housing as well
It would require some of Shane Jone's "Booty" for regional development to provide jobs and housing development in the Manawatu to accommodate the families etc.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 7, 2018 12:37:26 GMT 12
I have had it suggested that they should base No.5 Squadron at Tauranga. I like that idea.
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Post by horicle on Jul 7, 2018 12:57:22 GMT 12
Remember the last time Whenuapai was going to be closed?
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Jul 7, 2018 13:07:27 GMT 12
Only a matter of time... I'll bet there's a behind-the-scenes coalition deal done that sees the end of Whenuapai. Twyford should be smug, er...happy
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Jul 7, 2018 14:17:58 GMT 12
Well … if they're purchasing aircraft which are unable to operate from there, then Whenuapai is no longer fit for purpose.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 7, 2018 14:42:31 GMT 12
The government has the right to take land and bowl houses to extend the runway. Why not do that?
They have apparently stuffed the Singapore deal that was going to extend Ohakea's runway for free so they will have to invest in Auckland.
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Post by beagle on Jul 7, 2018 14:51:05 GMT 12
The deal is Dave, If the P8 purchase was done, then 5 Sqn would move to Ohakea. hangar already there for them, runway ok for length.
My option is when Auckland International complete their second runway, they base 6 and 40 sqn there.
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Post by ErrolC on Jul 7, 2018 14:54:32 GMT 12
Besides the cost (even at metro-adjacent diary farm/market garden rates for the land, rather than urban-fringe-for-now rates), there is also the matter of the rising terrain to the southwest. I used to live near the Spedding Rd end of Mamari Rd, by the way.
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Jul 7, 2018 16:46:44 GMT 12
...there is also the matter of the rising terrain to the southwest. I used to live near the Spedding Rd end of Mamari Rd, by the way. Great for photographs and spotting then, Errol. And, you're not living there now...? |
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Post by ErrolC on Jul 7, 2018 16:54:31 GMT 12
...there is also the matter of the rising terrain to the southwest. I used to live near the Spedding Rd end of Mamari Rd, by the way. Great for photographs and spotting then, Errol. And, you're not living there now...? It was a while ago. We still had Bristol Frightners. Those are damn noisy when practising night single-engine landings... |
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Jul 7, 2018 17:12:34 GMT 12
Ahhh paradise
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 7, 2018 18:28:11 GMT 12
Hills are no barrier if you're serious. They removed hills from Rongotai and Mangere when the runways were lengthened  |
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Post by conman on Jul 7, 2018 19:24:10 GMT 12
They have lots of rising ground in Queenstown but manage quite nicely, should be pretty easy to add a couple of hundred metres to WP, would hate to see yet another airforce base carved up for houses
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