|
|
Post by baz62 on Jan 11, 2018 15:41:53 GMT 12
Wow you leave the room for a minute........we certainly have some passionate people in this thread and that is something that got a lot of collections going and preserved aircraft either long thought extinct or been grounded for a long time. About running Museum aircraft, although a great sight and sound it is actually wearing the exhibit and there is a risk of something going horribly wrong. I was lucky to volunteer here at Wigram when the Avenger, Dakota,Devon and T11 Vampire(now in the Ashburton collection) were all running. Sadly the Avenger's engine had a conrod/piston failure in 1981 and will never run again and one of the Dakota's engines had a supercharger bearing fail during a run. Museums are about preservation and engine running can be detrimental to that goal. Fortunately we can still hear an Avenger and Dakota running (and most importantly fly!) here in NZ.
|
|
|
|
Post by camtech on Jan 11, 2018 15:43:37 GMT 12
Thanks for bringing up the Devon diorama - always liked that one, as I was involved in getting it ready for display. As most will know, the display diorama was based on a Conly painting of a Devon undergoing servicing. The idea of having groundcrew and open panels appealed to us right from the start.
I admit the diorama with Devon NZ1820 was always interesting when the great unwashed (public) got to look into an actual size aircraft.
The Catalina was always going to be a challenge, considering the state of it, but Smokey Dawson did a great job getting it to where it is.
|
|
|
|
Post by TS on Jan 11, 2018 16:11:05 GMT 12
Don't forget TS that Wigram is a free museum, so more people just means more work but not more money. Maybe it's time to change that? It's a museum that is well worth paying an entrance fee for.  |
|
|
|
Post by Bruce on Jan 11, 2018 16:49:56 GMT 12
I asked about the Cat on the museum's Facebook page, here is the reply:
Hi Bruce – thank you for your message. The first part of the initial project will be relocating the Catalina fuselage / hull to our Workshop for conservation work. The work being undertaken at this stage will involve removing surface corrosion and re-priming the structure to prevent further deterioration. While this work is being undertaken, the second part of the initial project will be conducting research into the history of the Catalina fuselage / hull will to determine the long-term display options for this large object. If you have any further questions, please email us at info@airforcemuseum.co.nz.
So no official confirmation or denial yet, but clarification of what their initial plan is.
|
|
|
|
Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Jan 11, 2018 18:13:55 GMT 12
Is there a ex RNZAF DC6 still in Africa? There sure is. Douglas DC-6 c/n.43127/133 is derelict in South Africa. Previously.... • British Commonwealth Pacific Airways (VH-BPG “ Adventure”) • TEAL (ZK-BGB “ Arawhata”) • RNZAF (NZ3632) However, a museum in Queensland has their eyes on it, although things appear to have gone a bit quiet lately. Either they are unable to raise the dosh, or have found other higher priorities, as the project appears to have not progressed at all on their website over the past four years or so. Perhaps it could be grabbed by Kiwis. Although my preference would be to restore it as a BCPA Douglas DC-6 Sleeper Transport as used on trans-Pacific services from Sydney and Auckland to San Francisco and Vancouver. However, I imagine it would be a rather expensive exercise recovering the derelict hulk from South Africa. See the following threads.... • British Commonwealth Pacific Airlines• Douglas DC-6 c/n.43127/133 |
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 11, 2018 18:35:30 GMT 12
There won't be enough room for the DC-6, it will have to go to Wanaka with the Bring Our Birds Home collection.
I'd love to see the ice display come back. I always enjoyed seeing the Beaver on ice with the Auster flying overhead. On recent trips since it was removed it's not quite the same. Maybe they could get a Weta-style lifelike dummy of Sir Edmund Hillary to go in it too since those aircraft supported his expedition. That would be a bit of drawcard or a novelty I'd think.
|
|
|
|
Post by jp on Jan 11, 2018 18:54:15 GMT 12
The dioramas (devon, beaver, etc) seem to have been done away with to make it easier to move aircraft in and out easily for corporate events?
Just as a thought - does the museum get any income from the events held in their new hall, or are they just paid an annual lease for its use by the local council?
|
|
|
|
Post by shorty on Jan 11, 2018 20:56:18 GMT 12
With the B 12 Canberra I think they should graft the B(I)8 nose onto the Aussie B 20 (Which is the method they used to develop the B(I)8), if you look at the photo on page 45 of my stash thread ( rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/17636/photos-stash?page=45) you can see on the paint stripped example where the nose is joined. This would make the restoration simple as the RAAF one doesn't need restoring and it would give us a representative example of what we flew once the extra aerials etc are fitted. The complete B 20 nose could then become a seperate display similar to Ashburtons's displayed nose |
|
|
|
Post by Peter Lewis on Jan 11, 2018 21:11:36 GMT 12
I asked about the Cat on the museum's Facebook page, here is the reply: Hi Bruce – thank you for your message. The first part of the initial project will be relocating the Catalina fuselage / hull to our Workshop for conservation work. The work being undertaken at this stage will involve removing surface corrosion and re-priming the structure to prevent further deterioration. While this work is being undertaken, the second part of the initial project will be conducting research into the history of the Catalina fuselage / hull will to determine the long-term display options for this large object. If you have any further questions, please email us at info@airforcemuseum.co.nz. So no official confirmation or denial yet, but clarification of what their initial plan is. The history is freely available, no great research required: www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/pby/68045.htmlwww.aussieairliners.org/catalina/vh-sbv/vhsbv.htmlwww.goodall.com.au/australian-aviation/civil-catalina-2/civilcatalinas2.html (sixth item down). |
|
|
|
Post by baz62 on Jan 12, 2018 12:43:18 GMT 12
Ok lets move on then. The winch that used to be used for the Avenger in her target tug role was apparently used in one of the Dakotas (NZ3546?). It was located and shipped down to Wigram but as far as I know has not been on display. Be nice if that turned up and got displayed with 04.
|
|
skyman
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 83 
|
Post by skyman on Jan 12, 2018 13:40:31 GMT 12
The drogue towing winch was indeed fitted when required to Dak NZ3546. During the last 10 years or so of Dak drogue towing the winch had a more powerful electric motor fitted to shorten the time it took to wind in 6,000 feet of wire cable. It would be great to see it on display, and as I understand it was also used in Avenger drogue towing.
Shorty's suggestion to graft the Canberra B(I)8 nose onto the RAAF B20 has some merit as B(I)12 Canberras served our country well for over 10 years. While the B20 is a fine aircraft and served Australia well it doesn't have too much association with the RNZAF except when visiting occasionally. Any B20/B(I)12 composite displayed in RNZAF colours should be noted as such and credited to the RAAF as well. I would love to see a Canberra B(I)12 on display, it was a fine aircraft.
Al
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 12, 2018 14:03:45 GMT 12
OK, I have just had a 45 minute conversation with Wing Commander Brett Marshall, the Executive Officer and Deputy Director of the Air Force Museum of New Zealand. He assures me that this rumour about the Catalina is baseless, the museum has no plans in place to slice the side off the aircraft, or make it a walk through exhibit, as some have suggested. He says the only thing that has been approved to take place is a review of the airframe in its current state to check for any possible corrosion and degradation that may have occurred during the past 30 years. If any problems are found they will be rectified in this inspection process.
He says this is the first phase in the aircraft's restoration, with subsequent phases expected to be implemented once this is completed. When this was announced he said the Director had stated that the project will be cut up into sections - i.e. the steps they are taking to restore it will be done in sections, the first being this inspection and corrosion control. She did NOT mean the actual airframe is to be "cut up" and "sectioned". This seems to where the misunderstanding has come from, and the rumour has stemmed from.
So what is happening with the Catalina is the first step in what is planned to be the process that will lead it towards becoming a display item some years down the track. The next step will be researching and compiling its history in comprehensive form, including what it did before, during and after the war. Though ideas have been batted around, no firm decision has yet been made on how the aircraft will be displayed, Brett says. So whether it will end up displayed with or without wings is not yet decided (they have the wing centre section, in poor condition, but not outer wings, at this stage), or if it will be display in fake water, or perhaps in a workshop style diorama with panels open and bits off, or perhaps on a way where people can get up close to the airframe and look in through windows, etc, has not been decided. The only definite known is that they are not going to hack into the side with an angle grinder and cut sections out, as many will have been imagining from the rumours.
Brett also said they are already investigating touch screen style displays that will allow visitors to see the aircraft interior on a screen beside certain aeroplanes, and perhaps swipe left and right and up and down to look around inside. Nothing is yet definite there but they are looking at different technologies. Brett says there also may be separate side displays where visitors can see what the structure of a flying boat is like, etc.
Another thing Brett mentioned was he has never heard any intention to do anything with the Canberra, there are no plans on the table to cut it up or otherwise. So that was also scuttlebutt.
On a positive note Brett has been most appreciative of many of the ideas and suggestions posted here already on the thread regarding the new displays. He mentioned Don's idea of the Skyhawk under maintenance being a good one, and he said the AFMNZ team have apparently got a big whiteboard of display ideas that has been added to over past months including such things as the ice display I advocated for to return. Brett said it's great to see more ideas coming through here that may make it into the mix. So keep these ideas coming.
As a consequence of the conversation I had and considering it all, I am now going to remove from this thread any posts about the Canberra and Catalina being under threat of being cut up, sectioned, chopped or any other such fate. It would not do to leave it here for future readers to find and get upset at. This will be an end to that matter. But please continue to post ideas for the displays for the museum team to read, and also your photos, memories, updates and all the rest that this thread was set up for.
|
|
|
|
Post by agalbraith on Jan 12, 2018 15:06:28 GMT 12
Great news Dave!!!
Thats the best thing I have heard all week. Also, thanks to Brett for informing us of this and clearing the matter up. Phew....what a relief!
Now, back on-topic. What does the Avenger winch look like, I have yet to see photo's of it. Would be great to see it displayed alongside '04'
Cheers
Anthony....the relieved
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 12, 2018 15:11:03 GMT 12
Don't forget TS that Wigram is a free museum, so more people just means more work but not more money. Maybe it's time to change that? It's a museum that is well worth paying an entrance fee for. Something else that Brett mentioned was the museum used to get around 30,000 people through the doors annually before it took the door charge off. Now that it is a National Museum and is free entry, last year they got 129,000 through the doors, he said. So they're reaching four times the number of people and telling our Air Force story to them. I think that is terrific. |
|
|
|
Post by saratoga on Jan 12, 2018 16:21:39 GMT 12
Bad choice of words, projects are usually split into sections. Just as well the minions didn't take her seriously!
|
|
|
|
Post by baz62 on Jan 12, 2018 17:04:19 GMT 12
Yes a sensible decision Dave. And good on Brett to set the record straight so promptly. Wow 129000 is a seriously good number. And although the ennrty is free there is a donation box plus a small fee ($10-$20?) to go on the restoration/storage hangar tour so some income is generated there. I did my first bit of Christmas shopping at the Museum's shop so at least $100 got put in the till. Now whose birthday is coming up........ah Obiwan27!
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 12, 2018 17:26:37 GMT 12
|
|
|
|
Post by TS on Jan 12, 2018 17:39:34 GMT 12
Maybe it's time to change that? It's a museum that is well worth paying an entrance fee for. Something else that Brett mentioned was the museum used to get around 30,000 people through the doors annually before it took the door charge off. Now that it is a National Museum and is free entry, last year they got 129,000 through the doors, he said. So they're reaching four times the number of people and telling our Air Force story to them. I think that is terrific. Fair enough that's a great increase but I beat they where not all from Christchurch. Most people do not expect a Museum to be FREE these days... Maybe pay for the "open days" ..... Sorry if I'm banging on here but whose paying for the building Maintenance etc,etc. MoTaT is not free, Ferrymead I think is not free. ( sorry I don't know as I live in AKL)  |
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 12, 2018 17:42:43 GMT 12
For such information you will have to ask the museum.
|
|
|
|
Post by Peter Lewis on Jan 12, 2018 22:41:30 GMT 12
MoTAT is free for NZ SuperGold Card Holders (aka elderly folk).
|
|
