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Post by beaufighter4 on Nov 21, 2019 12:00:16 GMT 12
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Post by camtech on Nov 21, 2019 13:26:42 GMT 12
link doesn't work
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Post by beaufighter4 on Nov 21, 2019 13:40:07 GMT 12
Try this then NEWS RELEASE On the web: www.dsca.mil Media/Public Contact: pm-cpa@state.gov Transmittal No. 19-69 New Zealand – C-130J Aircraft WASHINGTON, November 20, 2019 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to New Zealand of five (5) C-130J aircraft and related equipment for an estimated cost of $1.4 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today. The Government of New Zealand has requested to buy five (5) C-130J aircraft; twenty-four (24) Rolls Royce AE-2100D3 turboprop engines (20 installed, 4 spares); fifteen (15) Embedded Global Positioning System (GPS)/Inertial Navigation Systems (INS) (EGIs) with GPS security devices, airborne (10 installed, 5 spares); eight (8) Multi-Information Distribution System (MIDS)/Link-16 Low Video Terminal (LVT)-BU2 (5 installed, 3 spares); thirteen (13) AN/AAQ-24(V)N LAIRCM (Large Aircraft Infrared Countermeasures) System Processor Replacement (LSPR) (10 installed, 3 spares); and nineteen (19) Guardian Laser Transmitter Assembly for LAIRCM (15 installed, 4 spares). Also included are eight (8) AN/AAR-47 Missile Warning System (MWS); eight (8) AN/APN-241 Low Power Color Radar; eight (8) AN/ALR-56M Missile Warning System Receiver; fifteen (15) AN/ALE-47 Countermeasures Dispensing System; six (6) MX-20HD ElectroOptical/Infrared Imaging System; forty-four (44) Missile Warning Sensor, LAIRCM; Control Interface Unit Replacement, LAIRCM; classified memory cards, LAIRCM; Low Volume Terminal Cryptographic Modules KIV-55; AN/ARC-210 RT-1990A(C) Radio; AN/ARC- 164(V) RT-1518 Radio; AN/ARC-153 Tactical Air Navigation; AN/ARN-147 VHF Receiver; AN/ARC-190 HF Radio; AN/ARC-222 VHF Radio w/SINCGARS; Classified Tactical Manuals; Cartridge Activated Devices/Propellant Activated Devices; M206 Flares; MJU-64/B Decoy; BBU-35A/B Impulse Carts; Joint Mission Planning System; Classified Computer Identification Numbers; Electronic Combat International Security Assistance Program (ECISAP) support, support and test equipment, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistical and program support. The total estimated value is $1.4 billion. This proposed sale will support the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a major ally that is a force for political stability, and economic progress in the AsiaPacific region. The proposed sale will improve New Zealand's capability to meet current and future threats by enhancing its current airlift capability. This proposed sale will provide the capability to support national, United Nations, and other coalition operations. This purchase also includes sensors and performance improvements that will assist New Zealand during extensive maritime surveillance and reconnaissance as well as improve its search and rescue capability. Additionally, the extra cargo capacity and aircraft performance will greatly increase New Zealand's Antarctic mission capabilities while simultaneously increasing safety margins. New Zealand currently operates the C-l30H aircraft and will have no difficulty absorbing this equipment and support into its armed forces. The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region. The prime contractor will be Lockheed Martin, Ft Worth, TX. There are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale. Implementation of this sale will require the assignment of up to three U.S. contractor representatives to New Zealand. There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale. This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded. All questions regarding this proposed Foreign Military Sale should be directed to the State Department's Bureau of Political Military Affairs, Office of Congressional and Public Affairs, pm-cpa@state.gov. -30- |
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Post by ErrolC on Nov 21, 2019 14:05:44 GMT 12
They haven't made it explicit that they are -30 versions, which is more likely a designation issue than a real one.
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Post by gibbo on Nov 21, 2019 17:29:26 GMT 12
Try this then NEWS RELEASE On the web: www.dsca.mil Media/Public Contact: pm-cpa@state.gov Transmittal No. 19-69 New Zealand – C-130J Aircraft WASHINGTON, November 20, 2019 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to New Zealand of five (5) C-130J aircraft and related equipment for an estimated cost of $1.4 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today. The Government of New Zealand has requested to buy five (5) C-130J aircraft; twenty-four (24) Rolls Royce AE-2100D3 turboprop engines (20 installed, 4 spares); fifteen (15) Embedded Global Positioning System (GPS)/Inertial Navigation Systems (INS) (EGIs) with GPS security devices, airborne (10 installed, 5 spares); eight (8) Multi-Information Distribution System (MIDS)/Link-16 Low Video Terminal (LVT)-BU2 (5 installed, 3 spares); thirteen (13) AN/AAQ-24(V)N LAIRCM (Large Aircraft Infrared Countermeasures) System Processor Replacement (LSPR) (10 installed, 3 spares); and nineteen (19) Guardian Laser Transmitter Assembly for LAIRCM (15 installed, 4 spares). Also included are eight (8) AN/AAR-47 Missile Warning System (MWS); eight (8) AN/APN-241 Low Power Color Radar; eight (8) AN/ALR-56M Missile Warning System Receiver; fifteen (15) AN/ALE-47 Countermeasures Dispensing System; six (6) MX-20HD ElectroOptical/Infrared Imaging System; forty-four (44) Missile Warning Sensor, LAIRCM; Control Interface Unit Replacement, LAIRCM; classified memory cards, LAIRCM; Low Volume Terminal Cryptographic Modules KIV-55; AN/ARC-210 RT-1990A(C) Radio; AN/ARC- 164(V) RT-1518 Radio; AN/ARC-153 Tactical Air Navigation; AN/ARN-147 VHF Receiver; AN/ARC-190 HF Radio; AN/ARC-222 VHF Radio w/SINCGARS; Classified Tactical Manuals; Cartridge Activated Devices/Propellant Activated Devices; M206 Flares; MJU-64/B Decoy; BBU-35A/B Impulse Carts; Joint Mission Planning System; Classified Computer Identification Numbers; Electronic Combat International Security Assistance Program (ECISAP) support, support and test equipment, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistical and program support. The total estimated value is $1.4 billion. This proposed sale will support the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a major ally that is a force for political stability, and economic progress in the AsiaPacific region. The proposed sale will improve New Zealand's capability to meet current and future threats by enhancing its current airlift capability. This proposed sale will provide the capability to support national, United Nations, and other coalition operations. This purchase also includes sensors and performance improvements that will assist New Zealand during extensive maritime surveillance and reconnaissance as well as improve its search and rescue capability. Additionally, the extra cargo capacity and aircraft performance will greatly increase New Zealand's Antarctic mission capabilities while simultaneously increasing safety margins. New Zealand currently operates the C-l30H aircraft and will have no difficulty absorbing this equipment and support into its armed forces. The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region. The prime contractor will be Lockheed Martin, Ft Worth, TX. There are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale. Implementation of this sale will require the assignment of up to three U.S. contractor representatives to New Zealand. There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale. This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded. All questions regarding this proposed Foreign Military Sale should be directed to the State Department's Bureau of Political Military Affairs, Office of Congressional and Public Affairs, pm-cpa@state.gov. -30- Ok that's pretty much it then, it will be 5...no more or no less! I'm rather gutted not to see a 6th at the very least.... another generational investment opportunity wasted. I'm happy with the choice as a tactical platform, just not the numbers! I notice with interest that they'll be supplied with 'MX-20HD Electro-Optical/Infrared Imaging Systems' - ie: IR turrets as the P3K2 currently do.... I guess to enable them to help with SAR as they already currently do at times. I just hope this isn't the touted 'complimentary capability' for the P8 as 40Sqn doesn't have enough capacity already without taking on a new role. It'd be just typical of Govt to plump for that... do more with less! It does say C130J rather than C130J-30 specifically, but then it mentions near the bottom '...the extra cargo capacity and aircraft performance' so that seems to pretty clearly indicate a bigger a/c (ie the '30') |
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Post by beaufighter4 on Nov 22, 2019 15:09:27 GMT 12
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Post by kiwiredley on Nov 22, 2019 18:36:28 GMT 12
I remember reading some time ago a statement from Lockheed Martin that the -30 version of the C130J was what they intend to market as the standard build for the Aircraft and the short version would remain as a special option.
I know the short version has a better tactical capability but I was also in Richmond Australia, working for Hawkers on the P3,when the RAAF were originally looking at the C130J to replace their C130E and Lockheed put out a flyer comparing the E,H and J. It was a brief comparison of some basic performance parameters with each Aircraft at an AUW of 150,000 lbs,which I think was the C130E max. I don't recall all the figures but from memory the Take Off distances were quoted;
C130E 4000FT
C130H 2700ft
C130J-30 2300FT
C130J 1800FT
I bring this up as I have heard some state that by going to the -30 we are losing some Tactical capability but this is only if we are comparing a J-30 to a short J model but compared to our H models we are gaining some Tactical Take Off capability as well as increased payload capacity.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Nov 22, 2019 20:28:56 GMT 12
Good to see they are fitting all 5 airframe "with" all the Avionics goodies plus plenty of spare rotable LRUs. Makes a change from the "fitted for but not with" capabilities we have purchased in the past.
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Post by tbf25o4 on Nov 23, 2019 9:25:48 GMT 12
Don see my report on the annual RAeS symposium which will be in the next Aviation New. Neil Hygate spelled out the new approach to "off the shelf" buys and the need for standardisation
with our allies and friends
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 23, 2019 10:58:02 GMT 12
A frigging laser!   |
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Post by kiwirico on Nov 24, 2019 8:12:42 GMT 12
Just a bit disapointed that only five will be bought. A was pretty sure that six would be the number of aircraft.
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Post by joey05 on Nov 24, 2019 8:50:46 GMT 12
I still think back to talking with an American load-master at Chc as one of our Hurcs arrived when he said "oh you have C130s too, how many?" I replied "5", he then asked how many units operate them?"........"just 1-40 Sqn" he nearly choked on his cuppa Joe. He could not get his head around how an entire Airforce has just 5, he couldn't even imagine his wing with few numbers. If i remember correctly they had 8 air-frames, maybe 4/5 of which were ski fitted LC130Hs in and out of CHC/McMurdo and the States, plus ANG Starlifters.
If the NZG were serious about disaster relief, supporting our Allies and playing the important role they think we have in the Pacific we should have 8 (not taking into account the 757 replacement)
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 24, 2019 9:03:27 GMT 12
Come on guys, we had two options here, NZ First's option to buy five, or Labour and the Greens' option to not replace them. Just be thankful one of the three stooges has purchased five new aircraft.
The cost of adding additional numbers to the fleet is not as simple as buying more airframes, either. Extra airframes means extra squadron maintenance staff, extra contracts for heavy maintenance, extra spares stock and the staff to look after that, extra hangar space required, extra daily running costs, extra aircrew members to be trained up and retained, extra base housing and accommodation requirements, the list goes on and on. So when you say we should have bought eight airframes, where do you think that money would be coming from? It's not just from the capital expenditure but a huge extra strain on the annual defence budget. We'd need to get rid of a frigate or something to pay for it.
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Post by tbf25o4 on Nov 24, 2019 11:39:25 GMT 12
well said Dave
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Post by snafu on Nov 24, 2019 12:38:46 GMT 12
Come on guys, we had two options here, NZ First's option to buy five, or Labour and the Greens' option to not replace them. Just be thankful one of the three stooges has purchased five new aircraft. The cost of adding additional numbers to the fleet is not as simple as buying more airframes, either. Extra airframes means extra squadron maintenance staff, extra contracts for heavy maintenance, extra spares stock and the staff to look after that, extra hangar space required, extra daily running costs, extra aircrew members to be trained up and retained, extra base housing and accommodation requirements, the list goes on and on. So when you say we should have bought eight airframes, where do you think that money would be coming from? It's not just from the capital expenditure but a huge extra strain on the annual defence budget. We'd need to get rid of a frigate or something to pay for it. That's correct but its not like NZG cannot afford it. This is a choice by the government to underfund the NZDF big difference.
The extra base housing and accommodation requirements can be describe as nation building projects with money being spent in NZ by NZ and has a small amount of cost recovery in the form of taxation and employment. extra airframes not only provide short term benefits but also longer term by spreading the operational hours over more airframes
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 24, 2019 12:49:39 GMT 12
But that is what I am saying, it's not realistic to expect either this current government, or the last, and undoubtedly the next, to ever spend more on something that has been adequate in their view for 50+ years already. It goes against their views totally so it just simply won't happen.
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Post by pepe on Nov 24, 2019 13:16:57 GMT 12
I will wait until an actual contract is signed with Lockheed for five aircraft before I celebrate.
The State Department's approval of the FMS clears the way for this to happen, but does not yet guarantee we will get all five aircraft or all the associated equipment.
The pessimist in me worries that Cabinet may yet get the pruners out when they receive the final quote...
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 5, 2020 12:30:27 GMT 12
New Defence Force planes to cost government more than $1.5 billion25 minutes ago Jonathan Mitchell Jonathan Mitchell, Journalist @rnzjonathan jonathan.mitchell@rnz.co.nz The government is buying more than $1.5 billion worth of new planes for the Defence Force.  NZ Defence Force personnel boarding a Hercules plane. The New Zealand Defence Force is getting a new fleet of Hercules planes, to replace 1960s aircraft. Photo: Supplied / Ministry of Defence Five new Lockheed Martin Super Hercules aircraft would replace the outdated and costly 1960s Hercules fleet, said Defence Minister Ron Mark. The $15.21b project will include a flight simulator for staff training and other supporting infrastructure. "This fleet will ensure the Defence Force can continue to support New Zealand's community resilience, our national security, our contribution to our Pacific neighbours and the wider global community," Mark said. The aircraft and simulator are being bought through the United States' foreign military sales process, in a package that includes aircrew and maintainer training. Mark said this would reduce costs and allow collaboration with other nations on developments. The new planes will be faster, can travel further and will be fitted with a wide bandwidth, high speed satellite communications system and an electro-optical/infra-red camera, which is expected to be useful on disaster relief and search and rescue missions. The government also plans to spend $21 million to upgrade the Air Force's NH90 helicopters with improved communication, navigation, air traffic management and identification systems. The government spent $2.3b to buy new P8 Poseidons to replace the Air Force's ageing Orion planes, which had been in use since the 1960s. Mark has criticised the previous National-led government for "kicking the can down the road", and said the old fleet of Hercules planes needed to be replaced. However, last year, the Green Party lashed out at the government's decision to replace the old aircraft, calling the purchase "unnecessary." Defence academics have labelled it "money well spent." Both the 1960s Hercules and Orion fleets have become more expensive to repair. About $360m was spent over a decade on repairs, according to Official Information Act data supplied to RNZ in 2018. The first of the new Super Hercules will arrive in 2024, with all five operating a year later. www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/418334/new-defence-force-planes-to-cost-government-more-than-1-point-5-billion
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Jun 5, 2020 13:17:56 GMT 12
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Post by flyinkiwi on Jun 5, 2020 13:23:15 GMT 12
I think the Green Party need a new spokesperson for Defence. After checking Golriz Ghahraman's credentials (LLB and a BA in Art History) she has less of a background in Defence matters than I do. After claiming the buy is unnecessary they do not bother to offer up any detailed alternative solutions. Argument for arguments sake, just what you'd expect from a lawyer.
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