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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 19, 2023 11:41:00 GMT 12
Why do you assume that is a reliability issue?
It may be because other aircraft and crews are tasked elsewhere with planned operations, or because the committee running the disaster response has only asked for the four aircraft, given the huge fleet of civil helicopters and aircraft also involved.
Or it could well be because of the shortage of personnel that is affecting the whole of the NZDF, and that is a government issue, not a problem with the aircraft reliability.
From a fleet of eight at least one airframe will likely be in regular deep maintenance, leaving seven available at most.
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Post by tbf2504 on Feb 19, 2023 11:52:20 GMT 12
One of the NH90's is still awaiting a tail rotor gearbox replacement which was ordered in 2018! There will also be at least one or two others on deep servicing so a max of 5 available is about right
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Post by skyhawkdon on Feb 20, 2023 14:20:19 GMT 12
From what I have seen on the news and social media the NZDF's commitment has been pretty significant and is growing by the day. Remember this was/is a North Island wide emergency, not just Hawkes Bay/East Coast event. NZDF assets are being tasked all over the place. Given the staffing issues the NZDF is facing I'm actually surprised the commitment has been so swift and significant, especially by the Navy. The Seasprites are also being used I see. Haven't seen much of the A109s but they are pretty payload limited.
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Post by ErrolC on Feb 20, 2023 14:37:41 GMT 12
Yes Don. I also wouldn't expect Aotearoa out of planned maintenance ahead of schedule either (useful as the water-making facilities are) as I'm sure the crew are off doing all sorts of other things.
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Post by tbf2504 on Feb 20, 2023 15:26:19 GMT 12
with the current state of the navy's manning probably most of the Aotearoa crew are on the three ships currently deployed.
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Post by snafu on Feb 20, 2023 19:25:56 GMT 12
Why do you assume that is a reliability issue? It may be because other aircraft and crews are tasked elsewhere with planned operations, or because the committee running the disaster response has only asked for the four aircraft, given the huge fleet of civil helicopters and aircraft also involved. Or it could well be because of the shortage of personnel that is affecting the whole of the NZDF, and that is a government issue, not a problem with the aircraft reliability. From a fleet of eight at least one airframe will likely be in regular deep maintenance, leaving seven available at most. Obviously, levels will fluctuate but its generally a rule of threes. one airframe will generally be in some forme of maintenance for every three |
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Post by dutchkiwi on Feb 22, 2023 6:59:13 GMT 12
One of the NH90's is still awaiting a tail rotor gearbox replacement which was ordered in 2018! There will also be at least one or two others on deep servicing so a max of 5 available is about right Agree, only five are available at any given time. A country with a size as NZ should have double it's fleet of such helicopters. Pretty sure that many have questions about how to solve the next natural disaster... which will occure soon or late. |
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Post by gibbo on Feb 22, 2023 10:59:07 GMT 12
One of the NH90's is still awaiting a tail rotor gearbox replacement which was ordered in 2018! There will also be at least one or two others on deep servicing so a max of 5 available is about right 2018...really? If so then it's not hard to see why the ADF is pulling the plug, not so much platform performance itself. Can't blame them, that's abysmal support. Sure it wasn't the $NZ cheque bouncing?  |
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Post by tbf2504 on Feb 22, 2023 11:06:02 GMT 12
Talking with the personnel at 3 Squadron our problem is we are a small NH90 fleet at the far end of the world/logistics chain. However, the RNZAF NH90 fleet has the highest number of flying hours per capita for NH90s, and
other NH90 operators come to the RNZAF for advice on operating and maintaining the type.
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Post by 11SQNLDR on Feb 22, 2023 12:21:02 GMT 12
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Post by machina on Feb 22, 2023 19:56:41 GMT 12
Talking with the personnel at 3 Squadron our problem is we are a small NH90 fleet at the far end of the world/logistics chain. However, the RNZAF NH90 fleet has the highest number of flying hours per capita for NH90s, and other NH90 operators come to the RNZAF for advice on operating and maintaining the type. You’d think that with so many nations ditching the NH-90, NHI/Airbus would be doing anything to mitigate the reputational damage and possible drop in sales. A customer with comparatively flawless operations despite being the highest timed in the world is a PR gift; they should be bending over backwards right now to keep the RNZAF happy. To be kept waiting 4-5 years for a part is appalling. Logistics chain? It’s an aircraft manufacturer, fly it down in a company plane! |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 22, 2023 22:04:09 GMT 12
I also question why the attrition airframe has not been made use of if one aircraft is out of the game for four or five years due to a parts issue?
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Post by ErrolC on Feb 23, 2023 6:59:03 GMT 12
I also question why the attrition airframe has not been made use of if one aircraft is out of the game for four or five years due to a parts issue? I was assuming that it had been made use of, and this was the second instance of that item needing replacement. |
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Post by skyhawkdon on Feb 23, 2023 8:13:29 GMT 12
The 9th airframe purchased (the attrition airframe Dave refers to) was only purchased for the rotable parts. It was never assembled and delivered as a complete aircraft. These were the only rotable parts initially purchased for the fleet. Most will have been used by now. It was apparently cheaper to do it that way than purchase the parts individually as spares. I think they did the same with the A-109. Another good example of penny pinching at the front end of a procurement process that will bite you down the track. The Macchi was the same. We got a simulator instead of the spares and support package needed to sustain the fleet. We couldn't afford both!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 23, 2023 8:45:24 GMT 12
When will the government ever learn that investing properly in defence will actually be worthwhile and cheaper in the long run?
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Post by gibbo on Feb 23, 2023 8:50:31 GMT 12
The 9th airframe purchased (the attrition airframe Dave refers to) was only purchased for the rotable parts. It was never assembled and delivered as a complete aircraft. These were the only rotable parts initially purchased for the fleet. Most will have been used by now. It was apparently cheaper to do it that way than purchase the parts individually as spares. I think they did the same with the A-109. Another good example of penny pinching at the front end of a procurement process that will bite you down the track. The Macchi was the same. We got a simulator instead of the spares and support package needed to sustain the fleet. We couldn't afford both! So arguably it is possible NZ has been waiting since 2018 because we're being made to pay for not signing up to a lucrative (to the manufacturer!) spares contract? Mind you as machina mentioned, with the RNZAF being the poster boys you think they'd now be all over us like a rash for PR purposes. |
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Post by flyinkiwi on Feb 23, 2023 9:24:04 GMT 12
When will the government ever learn that investing properly in defence will actually be worthwhile and cheaper in the long run? When the enemy tanks are rolling up Lambton Quay... |
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Post by ErrolC on Feb 23, 2023 9:26:51 GMT 12
The 9th airframe purchased (the attrition airframe Dave refers to) was only purchased for the rotable parts. It was never assembled and delivered as a complete aircraft. These were the only rotable parts initially purchased for the fleet. Most will have been used by now. It was apparently cheaper to do it that way than purchase the parts individually as spares. I think they did the same with the A-109. Another good example of penny pinching at the front end of a procurement process that will bite you down the track. The Macchi was the same. We got a simulator instead of the spares and support package needed to sustain the fleet. We couldn't afford both! So arguably it is possible NZ has been waiting since 2018 because we're being made to pay for not signing up to a lucrative (to the manufacturer!) spares contract? Mind you as machina mentioned, with the RNZAF being the poster boys you think they'd now be all over us like a rash for PR purposes. It should be replaced under guarantee (manufacturing fault etc) and as is common in these circumstances the supplier is being awkward? |
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Post by machina on Feb 23, 2023 11:35:03 GMT 12
On the other side of the coin you’d hope that the RNZAF/MoD were leveraging this point to wrangle better service and any other deals. NHI/Airbus should at the same time also be reminded that we’ll be replacing the Sea Sprites soon and that right now the MH-60 is looking attractive.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Feb 23, 2023 14:18:26 GMT 12
So arguably it is possible NZ has been waiting since 2018 because we're being made to pay for not signing up to a lucrative (to the manufacturer!) spares contract? Mind you as machina mentioned, with the RNZAF being the poster boys you think they'd now be all over us like a rash for PR purposes. It should be replaced under guarantee (manufacturing fault etc) and as is common in these circumstances the supplier is being awkward? Usually aircraft manufacturers only provide a 12 month warranty on their parts, even from new. Unless it is proven and accepted by the manufacturer to be a design, material or manufacturing defect then the user pays. |
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